High-end cameras and Costs

[Rob MacKillop]

Not that I am in the market - or even within flying distance of the market...

I was just following up something Pete mentioned - Phase One backs - I wasn't sure what a "back" was. After a few mouse clicks I noticed Phase One cameras for sale from £10,000 upwards. I've also noticed other brands going for tens of thousands.

So, the obvious question, what makes a camera worth that level of cash? I know the Law of Diminishing Returns will have a role to play. I've played (not owned) Gibson guitars priced around £20,000, but they are Collector's items, not because they sound or play better, but for other associations with a star player, or are vintage. But these cameras are new.

Smaller manufacturers, perhaps? R&D? I can see those things adding to costs, but that doesn't mean they are better cameras.

 

[Pete Askew]

Now there's a tricky subject Rob. As you have spotted PhaseOne do indeed 'make' a camera body - well actually Mamiya make it and are technology partners / part-owned by PhaseOne. PhaseOne make digital capture backs and have been one of the market leaders and innovators in this area for some time. The cameras take lenses by Mamiya, Schneider and, via a converter, Hasselblad. They don't make the sensors themselves but buy them from, what was, Kodak's digital arm and this apparently accounts for about 50% of the cost of the back. These 'chips' are highly selected for minimum errors etc and are created by 'stitching' several together. For example, my lowest resolution back, although only 16MP, measures 37 x 37 mm. Dynamic range and noise from these backs is very low and colour accuracy is very high. Also, they go to very high levels of resolution with the IQ180 being 80MP with a 'chip' measuring 60 x 45mm and can be used on medium format and large format cameras - my largest is a P45 which has a resolution of 39MP and a chip with the same ratio as a 5x4" LF camera.

Now I know that there are very fine smaller format cameras out there and we have a Nikon D3x in the lab and people talk about things like the D800 being a MF beater, but really these tools are quite different. The lenses that the cameras take are highly resolving and highly corrected for errors and for critical work a larger format still delivers significant advantages. The nice thing about PhaseOne (and why I use them) is that they are an open system and I can use the backs on both my Hasselblad systems and a large format camera. When Hasselblad were acquired by Imacon, they locked out the competition. So you can fit a PhaseOne back to the H1/H2 (and any V system body) but not the H3/H4 etc. A shame I feel even though the Hasselblad backs are very good and very competitively priced. I use a P45 on an H1 system (and LF) and both a P20 and a H20 on V-system cameras. We will probably buy a P65+ (60MP) later this year for both V and LF.

Most of these systems are intended for professional use and are not overly portable compared with DSLRs etc but they can be (and are) used for landscape work etc. If you want portable and good ergonomics you need to look at things like the Leica S system (LEICA Camera AG - Das Leica S-System). Actually, they have just released a Hasselblad H to Leica S converter. And I have an extensive range of H lenses! Mmmmm...

 

[Rob MacKillop]

Hmm, indeed. A Leica S starts at £20,000. Well. For a pro setup! I suppose that's acceptable, especially if you have compatible lenses already. I don't think I'll ever swim in those waters.

What's a decent low-cost digital medium format camera?

 

[Davie Hudson]

I'd love to be in the position to do a comparison test, on the stuff I do normally that is(I know there is comparison tests all over the place) and see if these systems would do anything for me personally

 

[Pete Askew]

It really does depend on what you're doing. I do use the backs for personal stuff and I can get qualities that I cannot with a smaller format but 80% of my personal digital stuff seems to be on either a DSLR or, more often, the M9. Film is different and I shoot more MF and LF than 35mm these days. For example, I don't think these would have have worked had I have tried to create them with a smaller format (aside the specialised lens I used) - http://www.realphotographersforum.com/people-portraits/2805-summer-heat-coffee-cyanotype.html.

Decent low-cost digital MF. Tricky. The Pentax 645 is a bargain for what it is and has had good reviews (Medium Format Digital Cameras by PENTAX) and the PhaseOne can make an 'affordable' kit with good upgrade potential. Probably the best route would be a secondhand MF camera (so you can shoot film - Mamiya Rb and RZ systems are bargains these days) plus a refurbished back (Teamwork has a H20 for sale for < £1K - I bought mine quite a few years ago when the came out for £16K if I remember right! a P would be more useful though as the H backs need to be tethered to a computer).

 

[Rob MacKillop]

The Mamiya Rb can be found by the bucketload on eBay, but I wouldn't know what to do with one. Something to read up on, though. Cheers, Pete.