Rob MacKillop
Edinburgh Correspondent
At the door of the National Museum of Scotland, Edinburgh...
Scots' Welcome To The English
- Thread starter Rob MacKillop
- Start date
Brian Moore
Moderator
Nice shot, though, Rob.
Hamish Gill
Tech Support (and Marketing)
So which side of the fence do you pair fall?
Rob MacKillop
Edinburgh Correspondent
I dread everyone equally...
Brian Moore
Moderator
Glenn Clabo
Well-Known Member
Ha...those kind of comments are much like what is all over the history here in Boston. I live 20 steps from where the American Revolution began.
Rob MacKillop
Edinburgh Correspondent
But seriously...I live in Edinburgh, where most of the English people who come to live in Scotland are based. Some of them are scared of "being locked out" of England, which is preposterous, but most are totally relaxed, convinced that the voters will reject Independence. Many are based here because their children are approaching choosing university age, and if they have lived in Scotland long enough, there are no university fees - a considerable sum, especially if you have more than one child. The irony there is that Scottish school kids are being told not to apply to Scottish universities, as they come with no money. They have a MUCH better chance of applying to English universities. The whole thing is a mess.
I don't think Scots will vote for independence - there are t0o many scare stories going around, especially financial ones.
Seems to me there are two arguments being played out. The first is financial. We are being asked whether we believe Scotland will be financially better off as an independent country. How the hell am I meant to know the answer to that?! I'm not a financial analyst. Even if I could calculate for the coming five years, what about ten years from now? 50? 200? No one knows.
The second is cultural identity - much harder to pin down - Why are we the only country in the world which sings a (so-called) National Anthem which slags us off? "God save The Queen" has a verse about putting down the annoying Scots. We have lost any self confidence as a Nation. The argument is that Independence will give us the backbone which has been lacking these last 400 years. BUT, I have no interest at all in ANY state, British, English, American, Icelandic, any damn place. But the choice is there.
Think of all those Conservative governments the UK has had over the decades - the Scottish people never voted for one of them. Not one. Yet we've had to put up with them. No choice. We are outnumbered. There is one single Conservative member of parliament. Yet despite the Scottish Parliament (with limited powers) now sitting in Edinburgh, we still have to put up with a (partly) Conservative government. So...many Scots believe that Independence will mean that we get the politicians we vote for, and that is the cornerstone of Democracy.
The arguments are complex, and I for one don't know how I'm going to vote. If I vote FOR independence, it will not be because I don't like English people - we Scots are not that daft - it would be because I believe in democracy, and we do not have that under the present system. If I vote AGAINST independence, it will because I feel we are stronger in a union.
For non-British members of this forum, here is a run down of the makeup of Britain...
Britain = England plus Wales
Great Britain = Britain plus Scotland
The United Kingdom = the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Britain will not be broken up if the Scots leave. The Scots will still have the Queen as Head of State. Even today, at this moment, the Queen is not Queen of Scotland, and never has been - she is Queen of the Scottish People - not the land. It's an important constitutional point, meaning that she will still be Head of State if the parliament of Scotland secedes from the UK parliament.
And the word Independence is misleading - Scots will still belong to the European Union. There will be no physical border with England. We will all carry on as usual. Trade will still exist between the four countries. And we'll all remain just as bored with politics as we are now
I don't think Scots will vote for independence - there are t0o many scare stories going around, especially financial ones.
Seems to me there are two arguments being played out. The first is financial. We are being asked whether we believe Scotland will be financially better off as an independent country. How the hell am I meant to know the answer to that?! I'm not a financial analyst. Even if I could calculate for the coming five years, what about ten years from now? 50? 200? No one knows.
The second is cultural identity - much harder to pin down - Why are we the only country in the world which sings a (so-called) National Anthem which slags us off? "God save The Queen" has a verse about putting down the annoying Scots. We have lost any self confidence as a Nation. The argument is that Independence will give us the backbone which has been lacking these last 400 years. BUT, I have no interest at all in ANY state, British, English, American, Icelandic, any damn place. But the choice is there.
Think of all those Conservative governments the UK has had over the decades - the Scottish people never voted for one of them. Not one. Yet we've had to put up with them. No choice. We are outnumbered. There is one single Conservative member of parliament. Yet despite the Scottish Parliament (with limited powers) now sitting in Edinburgh, we still have to put up with a (partly) Conservative government. So...many Scots believe that Independence will mean that we get the politicians we vote for, and that is the cornerstone of Democracy.
The arguments are complex, and I for one don't know how I'm going to vote. If I vote FOR independence, it will not be because I don't like English people - we Scots are not that daft - it would be because I believe in democracy, and we do not have that under the present system. If I vote AGAINST independence, it will because I feel we are stronger in a union.
For non-British members of this forum, here is a run down of the makeup of Britain...
Britain = England plus Wales
Great Britain = Britain plus Scotland
The United Kingdom = the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Britain will not be broken up if the Scots leave. The Scots will still have the Queen as Head of State. Even today, at this moment, the Queen is not Queen of Scotland, and never has been - she is Queen of the Scottish People - not the land. It's an important constitutional point, meaning that she will still be Head of State if the parliament of Scotland secedes from the UK parliament.
And the word Independence is misleading - Scots will still belong to the European Union. There will be no physical border with England. We will all carry on as usual. Trade will still exist between the four countries. And we'll all remain just as bored with politics as we are now
Pete Askew
Admin
Great article Rob and a nice photo of the text. If it were me, I wouldn't know what to do either. Too many egos in the way to identify what would be best.
Rob MacKillop
Edinburgh Correspondent
Cheers, Pete.
Glenn Clabo
Well-Known Member
Thank you for that Rob. It explains the struggle that I've never really taken the time to understand. We have such a huge divide in this country right now...but talk of breaking away is limited to rather small right wing groups that have little understanding of what would happen.
Rob MacKillop
Edinburgh Correspondent
Cheers, Glenn. I wonder how Americans are viewing (if they are at all) the possible Yes vote for Scotland leaving the union?
Glenn Clabo
Well-Known Member
Well Rob....Having spent time living overseas...and now married to a Canadian...I have come to realize that generally speaking...Americans are extremely myopic and arrogant to what is happening outside our country. If you asked 99% of Americans what was going on politically in Canada's ongoing issues with Quebec they would look at you and ask...where's Quebec? My point is...that's right next door...and Scotland isn't.
Now...that being said we tend to follow our ancestral country and I'm sure that the Scots here are following what's happening there. Only because I read a lot...and try to look outside of here...do I have any knowledge at all. In fact...to be honest...until joining RPF it has not been a subject that has caught my eye. Until I pissed in your tea with the old England comment...I had just a vague understand of the geography...let alone the politics. And now your explanation has focused me even more...but sadly...I know of no one who is interested.
I sure am long winded this morning...I hope that makes sense.
Rob MacKillop
Edinburgh Correspondent
I had a feeling that would be the case. The UK likes to think itself the closest ally of the US - bit of a joke, really.
Anyway, I'm watching Kung Fu Panda - much more interesting!
Anyway, I'm watching Kung Fu Panda - much more interesting!
Hamish Gill
Tech Support (and Marketing)
King fu panda is arguably one of the best films of the last ten years ... Certainly the best animated film! IMO of course 
As for Scotland... I know more after reading your post than I ever have.... My main concern with respect to Scottish independence is that if it does happen, without your votes, we may never get rid of the Tories!
As for Scotland... I know more after reading your post than I ever have.... My main concern with respect to Scottish independence is that if it does happen, without your votes, we may never get rid of the Tories!
Rob MacKillop
Edinburgh Correspondent
Ha! You are welcome to them. The great joke here, of course, (and it unites our two themes here - politics and pandas) is that there are more pandas in Scotland (two) than Conservative politicians in the Scottish Parliament (one).
Glenn Clabo
Well-Known Member
Well...I guess some would say that even best friends don't neccessarly know...or want to know...what goes on in each others bedrooms.
I'm betting very few people over there know why Texas wants to leave the Union...in fact...I doubt that most Texans know why either. To this day this country still argues over the reason for the Civil War. As an offspring of a southern father (States rights) and northern mother (Slavery) ... I've heard it first hand all my life. Anyway...Kung Fu Panda rules
Pete Askew
Admin
Where do they stand on the major issues though? Could Scotland ever be considered to be self-sufficient in bamboo? These are serious concerns!
Aldous Lau
Well-Known Member
Nice shot Rob
Rob MacKillop
Edinburgh Correspondent
@Pete Askew - believe it or not, there is a bamboo farm in Perthshire growing bamboo specifically for the two pandas...
Pete Askew
Admin
So, independence it is then!
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