Issue with XP2

[Chris Dodkin]

Looking for some input from those more familiar with film dev.

My local 'pro' lab gave me my most recent roll of film back, Ilford XP2, with some pretty nasty issues on some frames

This is a bad case - but there were similar wavy lines on about 75% of frames

The film was not cut, and the issue was not visible on all frames, and was visible on the actual negs for the effected frames.

The lab owner said that they only ever has this issue with XP2 - apologized, and recommended I not use XP2, but use Neopan, TMAX or HP5 if I wanted ISO 400.

They've done a great job on every other film I've given them, so this is rather odd.

Appreciate it's difficult to diagnose remotely, but any ideas?

The film had been through hand baggage X-Ray, so could that be a factor?

Or are they doing something wrong when the process any XP2?

 

[Pete Askew]

Doesn't look like an X-ray effect and that is usually a repeating pattern. It sort of looks like scratches but it is odd that they are not 'straighter'. I would send an email to Ilford. In my experience they are very helpful.

 

[Chris Dodkin]

Good idea Pete - will drop them an Email

If they were straight I'd say scratches for sure - but they are all over the place!

 

[Hamish Gill]

Never seen anything like that ...
If go with Petes recomendation too

 

[Beth Carter]

clean the sensor?

 

[Larry Bolch]

Very remote chance, since it is likely to be machine processed, but I have seen the effect due to uneven drying. I could be sometimes cured by rewashing the film, treating in a wetting agent like Kodak Photo-flo, squeegee with care and drying in a low dust environment.

The streaks are where water ran down the film from improper use of a squeegee and the film dried at different rates. It can also show up as water-spots, ring-shaped defects. I have seen it with silver-based film, but not chromogenic. It may however be that XP2 is particularly susceptible.

I saw a similar thing a long time back, when I scanned film from a three week trip through the US Pacific Northwest. However, the streaks were straight and parallel. I first blamed the lab, but did a bit of research. I was using an Epson scanner, that has a calibration area that must be kept surgically clean. Small bits of dust in that area were the cause of the streaks. Very distressing, but easily cured.

 

[Chris Dodkin]

Thanks Larry - I'll chat to the lab tech again when I go in and see where he thinks XP2 differs from other films, and how that may cause the issue

I have also Email Ilford and sent them a link to the sample - it will be interesting to see what they say

 

[Chris Dodkin]

Got a reply from Ilford today

Good morning Chris,

Sorry to read of the problems on your XP2 film. Also, apologies for my slight delay in being able to come back to you, but I wanted to show your images to a few other colleagues/think of some suggestion causes.

As you'll appreciate, its often hard to evaluate scans of defects - even though they can be of high quality (as yours).
From looking at your scan, we are unfortunately not recognising it as a typical manufacturing defect (coating or finishing). Nor have I had any similar looking complaints over the years (although I work in our Technical Services department, fro the past 12 years as a part role - I have also handled all customer quality issues/complaints).
That said - I am not wanting to dismiss us as causing the defect.

If we had to make some best guesses (as currently thats all we can do) - we would have thought it caused by some sort of processing issue. Or maybe even some sort of Xray fogging effect. Or some strange effect if the film was very old. Or some strange effect if perhaps the film was fridge stored - and not given quite enough time to defrost/acclimatise. Or if the film was used in extreme humid/hot conditions - and some strange effect has arisen.
Or its some sort of stressing effect (but we can't suggest where)..

So to try and further help - we can only really ask more q's:-
- Would you be able to let me have the batch number? - it will be on the carton. A number such as 96CXM1C/02-1. If you no longer have the carton - there will be 4 digits on the processed films upper signed edge. Numbers such as 5413. From either - we can then at least track its manufacturing history, and I can check if we did have any complaints.
- Have you got any more of the exact same batch left? Maybe we can test one for you / happily replace it for you.
- Have you had any other XP2 Super films affected in this same lab when you got this one back? (I acknowledge your comments that they say they have seen this issue before with only XP2 films).

In order to best help - we'd need the samples back (address is as below). I would ensure the samples are kept safe and returned to you.
Failing the above revealing anything obvious causes, I am suggesting that if the lab has seen this before with just XP2 - they must have something amiss in the set-up as we have never known problems when XP2 Super goes through its recommended process of C41 (colour chemistry).
I'll await your coming back re above.

Address to send samples
Harman Technology Ltd,
Attention Sue Evans,
Ilford way,
Mobberley,
Cheshire
WA16 7JL.
England

Kind regards,
Sue Evans

Sue pretty much goes through the full rage of possible causes - interesting that they would't rule out Xray - I didn't mention to them that it had been through two passes of hand baggage scanning.

Nice of them to reply, not sure if I'll take the time and $$ to take it further. I can test the remaining batch myself by taking photos and getting them processed somewhere else.

 

[Pete Askew]

Attentive at least. And I spoken to this lady on the phone and she was very helpful then also (black precipitate in ID11).

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As you say, interesting that she mentions X-rays. I associate these more with bands etc but have a look at the picture of the elephant in this link.

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/tib/tib5201.shtml

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Or is that a fence? It's taken from the other side to this one I just realised. I'm not convinced as it's a light line.

 

[Chris Dodkin]

Interesting - that describes the effect very well Pete - nice find

If it is hand-baggae scanning, then hand search would be the only safe option for film use and air travel.

Or the Xray proof film bag you mentioned - which might of course prompt a hand inspection!

What they need to invent is an imaging method that is immune to Xray, and also exposure to light, when the idiot camera owner takes the media out in full daylight!

 

[Pete Askew]

Have you ever thought of trying digital photography Chris?!


Did you keep the trashed roll that hadn't wound back?

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This is the bag I use.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Domke-X-Ray...105?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d081fd2d1

 

[Hamish Gill]

THats a good response eh? Nice and detailed ... I'd still as them the film ... Intrigue would get the better of me ...

 

[Andy Boardman]

Hi Chris, Sue is allways very helpfull & they will get to the bottom of it if they can.Regards X Ray proof bags for films don ot bother as I can assure you they DO NOT WORK otherwise every terrorist in the world would make their bombs with that in mind,all the customs guys do is turn up the dosage to look through the bag as a friend does it for a living.I would lean towards the drying mark problem myself depending on what machine they use to process films.
Hope this helps a wee bit.
Andy

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Hi Chris, Sue is allways very helpfull & they will get to the bottom of it if they can.Regards X Ray proof bags for films don ot bother as I can assure you they DO NOT WORK otherwise every terrorist in the world would make their bombs with that in mind,all the customs guys do is turn up the dosage to look through the bag as a friend does it for a living.I would lean towards the drying mark problem myself depending on what machine they use to process films.
Hope this helps a wee bit.
Andy