Gary R. Smith
Well-Known Member
Does anyone here regularly (or occasionally) shoot large format?
LF Shooters?
- Thread starter Gary R. Smith
- Start date
Pete Askew
Admin
Yes, mainly 5x4, but not for over a year.
Gary R. Smith
Well-Known Member
Hi Pete,
I've got an itch...
...I put a bid on a Graflex 45 Crown (that was rejected). Maybe I dodged a bullet?
I figure I can easily do the developing and scanning but man, the film isn't cheap! Tri-X @ $5/sheet.
There does seem to be a reasonable selection available but unlike (say) a 35mm SLR, I'm going to be a babe in the woods when it comes to checking out a used camera.
I've got an itch...
...I put a bid on a Graflex 45 Crown (that was rejected). Maybe I dodged a bullet?
I figure I can easily do the developing and scanning but man, the film isn't cheap! Tri-X @ $5/sheet.
There does seem to be a reasonable selection available but unlike (say) a 35mm SLR, I'm going to be a babe in the woods when it comes to checking out a used camera.
Paul Taylor
Well-Known Member
I shoot reasonable often with my Toyo 4x5 monorail camera. I shoot mostly Ilford HP5, Catlabs 80II, and Film Photography Project "Frankenstein" for B&W and I buy Cinestill 400D for color when it is in stock as it is the cheapest color I know of.
The Film Photography Project's "Frankenstein" and "Mummy" films are a tad over $1 a sheet. Ilford HP5 is ~$3 a sheet, and Catlabs 80II is ~$2 a sheet when you can find it.
The Cinestill 400d color film is about $5 a sheet and they do it in batches. It is $119.99 / 25 sheets. I buy a pack whenever they have it in stock so I have a reasonable amount kicking around in my film freezer.
I use a Stearman Press SP445 tank for developing , however I also recently bought a Jobo 4x5 reel and tank to try it out as I am "meh" on the Stearman occasionally.
The Film Photography Project's "Frankenstein" and "Mummy" films are a tad over $1 a sheet. Ilford HP5 is ~$3 a sheet, and Catlabs 80II is ~$2 a sheet when you can find it.
The Cinestill 400d color film is about $5 a sheet and they do it in batches. It is $119.99 / 25 sheets. I buy a pack whenever they have it in stock so I have a reasonable amount kicking around in my film freezer.
I use a Stearman Press SP445 tank for developing , however I also recently bought a Jobo 4x5 reel and tank to try it out as I am "meh" on the Stearman occasionally.
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Gary R. Smith
Well-Known Member
I'm thinking that would be the way I'd go initially. Thanks for the prices on FPP's sheet film. That would make the pill easier to swallow.
I'm on the fence about paying the asking price for that Graflex. By the time I add all of the other odds and ends I'll spend that much again.
Gary R. Smith
Well-Known Member
I purchased a Nikkor 150/5.6 lens yesterday. Now I'm leaning towards a Wista 45 body. Any thoughts (anyone)?
Gary Ayala
Well-Known Member
How do you plan to meter?
Tony Warren
Well-Known Member
Hi Gary. I have mentioned elsewhere I have submitted my story with LF to 35mmc. Basically I have been a bit obsessed all my photographic life. Age and loss of muscle tone got me in the end - a Linhof Super Technika and even a Woodman plus Benbo Mk I tripod and other bits are pretty heavy for an octogenarian. I think your choice of a Crown Graphic, or even a Speed, is a good one, they were designed for hand held use and had light(ish) bodies and could be used as technical cameras to a point. You just need the hat and the cigar to become a latter day Weegee. Scratch the itch, it can be very satisfying,
Gary R. Smith
Well-Known Member
I think I'm leaning towards the Wista at this point.
Paul Taylor
Well-Known Member
I have a couple Nikon LF lenses - and they are great lenses. You will be happy with it.
Gary R. Smith
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure. After watching one of Kyle McDougall's videos yesterday where he shoots inside a small room at a slate quarry in Wales, it seems he meters three places: highlight, mid-gray and shadow. Then goes through a bunch of mental calculations.
The only meters that I've ever used are either built into the camera or a small hot shoe attached TTArtisan meter that just looks at the whole scene.
What do you suggest?
I'm guessing I'll be doing longer exposures at smaller apertures.
At $4 a pop for the film and $7 per sheet to develop (at least at first), I'd like to eliminate trial and error as much as possible.
Peter McDonald
New Member
One way is with spotmeter, measure the darkest shadow where you want some detail, and open up two stops. Alternatively take an incident reading, which will give a pretty good exposure. If all you have access to is a reflective meter, like the TTArtisan (which I also have and use), then point it at some grass/concrete/etc but not/or minimise sky, and use that reading. It should give you a reasonably good exposure.
With digital the notion is to expose for the highlights and let the shadows fall where they will; digital cameras will still record shadow detail. With film it is the reverse - expose for the shadows, and develop for the highlights. I generally use a medium yellow filter to improve the contrast.
Cheap, good quality sheet film is Foma, especially Foma100 and Foma400.
Cheers.
With digital the notion is to expose for the highlights and let the shadows fall where they will; digital cameras will still record shadow detail. With film it is the reverse - expose for the shadows, and develop for the highlights. I generally use a medium yellow filter to improve the contrast.
Cheap, good quality sheet film is Foma, especially Foma100 and Foma400.
Cheers.
Gary R. Smith
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the metering advice Pete! It looks like I can get 50 sheets of Fomapan 100 4 x 5 for $75, so $1.50/sheet. That should probably be my first batch. As slow as I'll likely deplete that, how long will it keep (freezer or fridge)?
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Gary Ayala
Well-Known Member
Can I recommend some reading. For LF, I suggest a Zone System and a Spot meter. Which, arguably, will provide a ton of control over exposure and development. A Reflective and Incident Meter will work ... mmmh ... pretty much equally well, you may have to walk a bit if shooting landscapes. Do get a Gray Card. A Gray Card is where you want to start, it will give you a baseline for exposure. A Gray Card = Medium Gray, which is the mid point between white and black.
You know all a light meter does is provide a read out/exposure settings for 18% Medium Gray? *1, *2
From that point you have to figure out what in your viewfinder is Medium Gray and what isn't. Then/If, for example, using The Zone System, you adjust according to which is the most important Zone you desire to expose for and how the details of the remaining Zones will be captured. Then you can alter your development time for your exposure.
Reading for Medium Gray means-
If you shoot a white wall and:
1) Center the Needle or equal in the meter;
2) Expose accordingly to the meter reading;
3) Develop normally (per instructions);
4) Print 'normally' with no adjustments; then
6) You'll end up with a Medium Gray print.
If you shoot a black wall and:
1) Center the Needle or equal in the meter;
2) Expose accordingly to the meter reading;
3) Develop normally (per instructions);
4) Print normally with no adjustments; then
6) You'll end up with a Medium Gray print.
If you plan to scan and process in a photo processing application, then exposure accuracy is less important than if you desire to 'Get It Right In The Camera".
FYI - The Zone System uses ten zones from 0 = Pure Black to 10 = Detailess White - Zone 5 = Medium Gray
*1 - 18% Gray is considered standard, some meters are setup for 12%.
*2 - Granted, modern meters have internal logarithms adjusting from Medium Gray ... but Medium Gray is a starting point.
PS- Poke around the internet and do some reading on exposure and light meters.
PPS- Grass ranges from Zone IV to Zone VI. Back in my film days, when shooting in a hurry, often I'll read off the grass and make a judgement call on the Zone ... around here, in general, grass is usually a bit darker than Zone 5.
You know all a light meter does is provide a read out/exposure settings for 18% Medium Gray? *1, *2
From that point you have to figure out what in your viewfinder is Medium Gray and what isn't. Then/If, for example, using The Zone System, you adjust according to which is the most important Zone you desire to expose for and how the details of the remaining Zones will be captured. Then you can alter your development time for your exposure.
Reading for Medium Gray means-
If you shoot a white wall and:
1) Center the Needle or equal in the meter;
2) Expose accordingly to the meter reading;
3) Develop normally (per instructions);
4) Print 'normally' with no adjustments; then
6) You'll end up with a Medium Gray print.
If you shoot a black wall and:
1) Center the Needle or equal in the meter;
2) Expose accordingly to the meter reading;
3) Develop normally (per instructions);
4) Print normally with no adjustments; then
6) You'll end up with a Medium Gray print.
If you plan to scan and process in a photo processing application, then exposure accuracy is less important than if you desire to 'Get It Right In The Camera".
FYI - The Zone System uses ten zones from 0 = Pure Black to 10 = Detailess White - Zone 5 = Medium Gray
*1 - 18% Gray is considered standard, some meters are setup for 12%.
*2 - Granted, modern meters have internal logarithms adjusting from Medium Gray ... but Medium Gray is a starting point.
PS- Poke around the internet and do some reading on exposure and light meters.
PPS- Grass ranges from Zone IV to Zone VI. Back in my film days, when shooting in a hurry, often I'll read off the grass and make a judgement call on the Zone ... around here, in general, grass is usually a bit darker than Zone 5.
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Gary R. Smith
Well-Known Member
Gary Ayala
Well-Known Member
Closest I've come to Large Format. I am eager to see how it goes for you.
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Tony Warren
Well-Known Member
Also a good choice I would say and a bit more modern and adaptable, like my Linhof was but probably a little lighter. As to exposure, the gray card is a good option or an incident meter if you have one. I use a Sekonic Studio which gives me a mid-tone, Zone 5 exposure. So if my subject is mainly dark in tone, i.e. chiaroscuro, I give a stop or two more, or if mainly light toned, high key, I give a little more. Or you can go the full Zone system with the spot meter as suggested but I find the mid tone base point quite consistent. I have done both over the years, following Ansel Adams writings and boosted Ilford's balance sheet significantly.
Gary R. Smith
Well-Known Member
That's a monster, I'll have to look it up. I assumed it was digital but it takes 120/220.
Gary Ayala
Well-Known Member
Nope, film, medium format with tilts and swings.
Peter McDonald
New Member
Gary,
Foma, in fact almost all B&W film will last for many years in the freezer, and in the fridge. I'm still using 10x8 Kodak Plus-X Pan that expired in the late 70s - and it still exposes and prints well, although I do rate it at 40 ISO, and normally use a yellow filter to boost contrast.
As an aside, in terms of suitable cameras, have you thought of starting with a pinhole camera? Good, well-made ones are not that expensive, and they produce excellent results - it takes a bit of a mind shift from the critically sharp most modern lenses are capable of, but they do have a wonderful charm. Have a look at the Ondu, Zero Image, and Harman examples. I use Ondu, but the other two produce similiarly good results. Metering is the same, except that they have fixed apertures in f150-300 range. There are a number of apps on both iPhone and Android that do most of the mental calculations, but Pinhole Assist and Viewfinder on the iPhone are probably the most useful.
Peter.
Foma, in fact almost all B&W film will last for many years in the freezer, and in the fridge. I'm still using 10x8 Kodak Plus-X Pan that expired in the late 70s - and it still exposes and prints well, although I do rate it at 40 ISO, and normally use a yellow filter to boost contrast.
As an aside, in terms of suitable cameras, have you thought of starting with a pinhole camera? Good, well-made ones are not that expensive, and they produce excellent results - it takes a bit of a mind shift from the critically sharp most modern lenses are capable of, but they do have a wonderful charm. Have a look at the Ondu, Zero Image, and Harman examples. I use Ondu, but the other two produce similiarly good results. Metering is the same, except that they have fixed apertures in f150-300 range. There are a number of apps on both iPhone and Android that do most of the mental calculations, but Pinhole Assist and Viewfinder on the iPhone are probably the most useful.
Peter.
