Like .....

Tom Dinning

Tom Dinning

Well-Known Member
You know how, when, like, someone likes something, and, like, they say so and, like, everyone gets, like, excited or something, and like, that's all we can say. Like. Then to save us from, like, saying it, when we, like, write or something, like, we have a 'like' button which, like, says what we are thinking. Like.
So, like, what's the point? I've even noticed here, like, some sort of scoring system for my 'likes'. Like, I'm not worth anything until I get, like, a mess of 'likes', like. Or my photos are like shit and I could resort to self-harm if no- one says anything and, like, a ' like' says it all.
I was under the impression that liking something had more to do with the viewer than the photograph.
I'm not being critical in a negative way, just sarcastic so don't think I'm having a go at this forum. Generally, people make comments that are meaningful or at least have a conversation generated from viewing the photo. But, really! What do you say after you have said 'like' that could be useful to the photographer or be constructive? An you like a meaningless photo?
Can you dislike a meaningful photo?
Is disliking/liking a photo important to the photographer?
What could we talk about when criticizing a photo?
 
It's just supposed to be the equivalent of a non-verbal sign of appreciation. A nod, smile, wink etc. where words are unnecessary. There is no score... Well there is, but thats only because I couldn't turn off the score without turning off the whole system. No one takes any notice of it, and it doesn't mean anything.
If you have more to say, good or bad; the say it :)
 
Ah, good old Hugo. We really should have a history of Hugo Hare @Hamish Gill especially since @Asun Olivan has even named her new son after him!

I tend to use the HHF to indicate that I liked something that was written rather than an image, often after I have already commented in the first place. The scoring is a bit odd though (even though I seem to be the most liked person here - as, of course, I should be: I am so nice after all! ;) ).
 
There are times when a few people may have said about an image what you yourself intended to say and some times there are not much to ad to it rather that you like it. And why should we not say that we like a picture. Show me a person who gives a hoot about whether people like their pictures or not. Then why be here in the first place. Of course there are times we can offer our better judgement to some images and give advice or constructive crticism. But we are all adults here and have done photography for some odd years. Who are we to judge anyone. After all it is all a subjective matter. Are you and I or anyone else for that matter, more qualified to convey criticism onto others here? Look at the members pictures and if you like it, well it's up to you to convey it or not. Enjoy what you see, enjoy the conversations and the light teasing of each others and please go on and present the pictures you have made and which you like. I assume that you do not present pictures / images that you have made which you do not like?!
 
Just recently I attended an exhibition of paintings of a friend of mine, Robert Walter http://www.tactilearts.org.au/exhibitions/fragments/
His paintings are quite beautiful, no doubt. He's a bit of a story teller and liar as well. We chatted for some hours about his paintings. Not once during the conversation did he ask if I liked his paintings,nor did I offer. Not once did he tell me about the paint, the canvas, the brushes, the strokes, the composition, nor did I ask. We talks at length about the place and the feel and the events that surrounded the experience. He spoke of the feelings he had and the way in which the pictures developed in his mind and finally came to fruition. His enthusiasm for the place and his struggle to bring that to canvas is fascinating, possibly more so than the paintings themselves, certainly as fascination.
Imagery has many facets. Visual realization is a complex and multilayered experience. Liking something as a visual experience is one aspect. The rest is to be explored. In exploring these other facets, we can share other experiences., ones that can add new dimension to our already well established like for photography.
Robert isn't famous or seen as some art guru. He's a bloke like you and I. What he does is allow the visual experience to gain more ground by considering as many aspects as he can.
The funny thing is, Robert thinks less of photographers than he does of amoebic dysentery. He cannot understand why someone would want to spend 1/60th of a second recording a scene when he takes 6 months to record the same. He thinks photographers are talentless imbeciles. He may be right. But I am always happy to hear his stories and reflect on his images beyond telling him I like them. It adds to my experience of the moment.
 
"The funny thing is, Robert thinks less of photographers than he does of amoebic dysentery. He cannot understand why someone would want to spend 1/60th of a second recording a scene when he takes 6 months to record the same. He thinks photographers are talentless imbeciles. He may be right. But I am always happy to hear his stories and reflect on his images beyond telling him I like them. It adds to my experience of the moment."

I can only ad to this in particular, that it says more about this friend of yours than the ones he thinks so badly of. And as I appreciate street photography and the decisive moment as Herny Cartiér Bresson so adequately put it, I am very happy to be able to use the tool which a camera is to freeze that moment in time and preserve it for years to come and hopefully share that moment with others in the hope that people would enjoy it as much as I do. ( Albeit I am an elephant and maybe have an elephants memory, as a friend of mine muses ), I still cannot paint even though I spend 6 months or more trying to put on canvas what took place in that street. But Tom, both you and your friend are entitled to opinions and so am I. Therefore I find it strange that you maybe think the same as your friend and convey it here where there are mostly photographers whom I respect. I really do not know and I only speak for myself, but I take time to sort out what I am about to photograph, spending quite some time on it occasionally, unless things erupt quickly. Whether I succeed or not is up to others to judge. Maybe people just do not want to analyse everything but enjoy the spur of the moment. And that my friend is my final word on this subject.
 
Just when I was warming to you, Ivar.
In some places that would be called 'door slamming'. It's a great way to end a discussion. It usually indicates one party has run out of steam or has stopped listening and contributing.
Such a shame.
 
Tom Dinning said:
Just when I was warming to you, Ivar.
In some places that would be called 'door slamming'. It's a great way to end a discussion. It usually indicates one party has run out of steam or has stopped listening and contributing.
Such a shame.
Click to expand...
I am sorry you see it that way Tom. I don't want to slam any door in anybody's face or be rude if I can help it. By you saying Tom; " Just warming to you Ivar." I perceive that, as if you want a debate for the cause of a debate. I just hope you understand that I have nothing further to contribute with, in this discussion so therefore I just tried to make it quite clear I have no further say. I probably did that in a clumsy way which was not my intent. The English language is not my mother tongue, so in some cases I may express things differently than an English speaking person. If I have offended you in any way, well I appologise for that. I simply said what I said, and thought my opinion was quite clear on the matter. What else is there to say?
 
Thank you Brian. We are all different in many ways and cultures do vary. I may perceive things a little differently than my next door neighbour, but that's the hard part about communication I am afraid. It's much easier to communicate in images.
 
Ignoring the misunderstandings, provocation etc, this raises some interesting issues, some of which are about perception. As an example, I have a photographer friend, now living in Stockholm, who for many years worked in advertising shooting for companies like Loreal etc. He now shoots fine art, mainly landscapes, and has a particular interest in the relationship between the Swedish psyche and solitude. He also now teaches photography as his 'day job'. Now the interesting thing is that Kim is a very talented painter but as an art form, photography interests him more. He will often visit a place many times, sometimes taking snaps with a dSLR as a notebook and slowly working towards an image that conveys what he wants. He'll then return, maybe one or two years later, and capture the image he wants using a 10"x8" camera. He might well consider some bloke who hangs about for 6 months dabbing paint on canvas to be rather shallow in interpreting a scene. The perception of what or why someone creates what they do can be rather difficult to interpret.

Now I am happy to concede that many images (or sketches, or paintings) have little more than either a nice / interesting scene or a sharing of an experience about them. Others might be the culmination of years of thought. The interesting thing is how one tells them apart and whether that even matters.
 
This seems a little unfair to @Tom Dinning I think.

Can we try and give the guy a chance please!

The point he is trying to make is that the concept of "like" lacks any level of sincerity. And that using it to denote appreciation for someone's art work is basically rude, when really, taking the time to listen to them talk about how they came to their work is pretty much the least you can do.

That's a fairly positive position to take on the subject to my mind... And whilst the choice of anecdote might not be ideal, given our collective choice of past time, it does - none the less - make the point.

The guy has has a bumpy start here. Clearly has a way that has potential to rub people here up the wrong way. But can we try and give him a bit of room for manoeuvre since he has taken the time to return and attempt a place in our community after we pretty much forced him out last time he tried.

Sorry to rant... :)
 
I'm quite, maybe enjoying is not the right word (I care too much about the overall ambiance of RPF), liking the discussions that your posts have provoked @Tom Dinning. Your approach is quite 'Australian' in many ways - I have a couple of colleagues with a similarly 'direct' tone. I guess that sometimes it doesn't quite translate to the written word in forum terms but, putting that aside, the topics interest me greatly. That is especially true of the story, implied or otherwise, behind an image or at least ones' interpretation of it.
 
I'm OK, Hamish.
I did think seriously about leaving the forum. I do have a sense of how things operate her. People are among friends with similar ideas and approaches to the etiquette that has established itself over the years. It's a similar situation on all of the forums I have visited. It is a popular and effective way for people to share their images and ideas as well as learning from each other and keeping up with the changing technology. I wouldn't like to guess how many such forums exist and, by the way, make claim to being different to any other.
In another time, before www, people had other means of networking. Reading mags and books, meeting and greeting, clubs and pubs, a casual chat at a gallery or sale, a wander through someone's house filled with images, the dreaded slide night, the family albums and a few post cards from afar being some of the methods used. I was part of all that, as I imaging most people here were as well. It was the foundation for us all. It was among the reasons why we take photos; that little tingle we all get when we do something that pleases someone else. Like our photo; like ourselves. We do the same thing with out dress, houses, cars, hairstyle and vocabulary. Where would we be without a pat on the back from time to time.
In addition to this feel good sensation, I and many others, including some from this forum I'm sure, discovered other levels in photography. Interests and ideas that developed a new and exciting aspect of photography and photographs that stretch the imagination, expand our understanding of not only photography but of the world in general and the photographer at large. Among these people we will find names like Adams, Sontag, Barthes, Szarkowski, Hirsch, and Bunnell. These people took photographs just like you and I. They shared them with others just like you and I. They liked to be liked and they liked their photos to be liked, I'm sure. A few might have made a sale or two. But that's not where it stopped for them. They talked about photography. Endlessly. They discovered that ideas could be stretched, new ideas developed and tested, and along the way they learnt a new way of enjoying their hobby. And, yes, in each case photography was a hobby; no more, no less. They were part of a forum as well. They wrote letters to their friends. I have read many of these letters. What wonderful things they wrote. They joked and liked and laughed and shared a tear at the frustrations of their chosen pastime. They talked gear and places and people and exhibitions and all the other things common to us and of interest to us.
Then they went beyond that and discovered other beauty in photographs. It was what some of them called 'Truth'. Now, they didn't sit back and say to themselves 'we've found this new and exciting thing about photography but we won't tell anyone'. No indeed. They told their friends. Now, I'm sure some of their friends thought 'what a bore. I just want to play. Get the slide projector out and see if you like any of these.'
So, what did the likes of these idealists do? They continued to de what they always did. They took photos of their kids and dogs and a can of beans and an apple close up and a crack in the wall or a mate on a fishing trip. They joked and laughter with the rest. And you know why? Because they saw that the likes of this forum is the foundation of what they had developed; a philosophy of photography that had never existed before.
That philosophy still continues to grow. It's as a result of the foundation work that this and other forums do; create an initial and continuing interest in an amazing process.
I'm at the end of my time. I have experienced a great deal in that time. I wanted to share that experience and possibly show others where it can take them. Yes, I am an educator. Yes I am passionate about what I do, just as each and every one of you are. I also take photographs for pleasure. I am also a sarcastic old bastard who loves goading people and turning the tables on a conversation just to get a reaction. I'm a big fat liar and have a foul vocabulary. I tease my grandchildren and hate cats. I don't drink because I drink too much for my own good and I wish I was 40 years younger. I like all photographs. I love my wife, Christine. Apparently I don't tell her that often enough. My excuse is I don't have to; I'd prefer to talk to her, not about her or tell her the bleeding obvious. She has learnt to accept that - for the time being.
So like away. I'm with you. I'm just opening up another pathway for those who want to see what's there. If it gets to the point your jack of me, tell me to fuck off. People usually do.
Cheers
Tom
 
Stick with us Tom. I enjoy what you write and provoke (in the specific use of the word). Don't forget though that for some forum users, English is not a first language and some explanation may be required. And some prompting for reaction may be misinterpreted.

However, as I mention in another reply to you I would also find some discussion about specifics rather than generalities to be very interesting / rewarding.
 
Now as we have had our say Tom, I still say that I can't find any more to say on our last discussed subject. That does not mean that I am not willing to discuss whichever interests me here on the forum and as you, I have opened up for just that if you look down the line here, so to speak. Of course I have my opinions and especially as I am getting older and hopefully a bit more wise or rather more experienced. I have when it comes to photography, been doing that since 1969 also professionally whatever that means. As a Norwegian and with my background, I have been brought up to be polite, a little careful about what I say and how I say it especially when I do not have the person in front of me visiually. I may slip at times and I appologise for that whenever I come to that realization. To be sitting here one morning way up in a corner of this globe, if I can put it like that since the globe is round, realising that there are people in this forum from all places not always mastering the English language to the fullest, I shall have to be cautious of what I say. Furthermore, I am a joker and I have a tendancy of joking too much and I have learnt that not everyone understands my jokes or even that I do joke. Some times I find things are far too serious. I try to be humble and respectful towards people I have not met and do not know, and I feel I can joke with people I have met and struck a cord with. So again, let's go on with discussions and anything in regard to photography, after all ´this is the place where we share the love of just that, photography. Cheers mate and may you have a wonderful day.
 
Lost in translation.
We are going to get on just fine, Ivar. Start by assuming everything I say is bullshit and work from there.
Tomorrow I might decide to argue that white is black and I'm a better driver than my wife, of which only one is a distinct possibility.
Boy! I didn't need to say this much when I got divorced. You guys are a tough bunch.
Now I need to behave. That might not be as easy.
 
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