Question on lower light landscape shooting - infinity focus

[David Mitchell]

Hi all,

I need a bit of help on this, tomorrow I plan to go and take some more photos with my Fujica ST605N (ive shot 9 frames out of 36 so far so need to go and take more lol) I am going to take some shots down town as well as our ruins of the castle - I live in Berkhamsted which has the only double moated Norman castle in the world and was where William the conqueror accepted the crown of England (as you do).

Anyway, I will be fine shooting down town as well as in the better lighting conditions for the castle, I might have an issue with the canal though as the light level will be a bit lower. My issue is that I want to shoot around F8ish to get a good DOF, but have the issue where due to the lower light I might have to drop to a lower number. I can of course drop the shutter speed to compensate however im worried that it might get to the point where I would need a tripod - don't want to drop it lower than 1/125.

My question is around infinity focus, I am guessing that due to the longer distance of some of the things I will be shooting I will be using inifinty focus. My question is around the shallower DOF if I did drop to the lowest F stop on the lens (this one is F2.2). When on infinity focus would it matter if I shot the camera wide open at F2.2? It would mean that I can run a slightly faster shutter speed meaning it won't blur.

I do have ISO 400 film though which should help, im just wondering what happens if you run infinity focus but set the lens at a wide open F number.

 

[Beth Carter]

you'll need to look up the hyperfocal distance to see what at what distance for that lens and film size at f/2.2.

 

[David Mitchell]

Hmm looking at a DOF calculator with my 55mm lens, at 10 metres @ F2.2 there would be a DOF of 4.66m with anything less than 8.19m out of focus. I can see that if I increase the F number it very quickly becomes infinate/much better DOF.

I did hand hold my D3100 with my Nikkor 35mm F2.8 and did a few test shots, I was shooting at ISO200 and was fine hand holding at 1/30 second. I think the suggested rule is 1/10 of the ISO shutter speed you are shooting at to avoid shake, im running ISO 400 film so it would be a minimum of 1/40, so my lowest shutter speed I will use on my camera will be 1/60.

Im glad I have a TTL meter as well as a DOF button on the ST605n which should be useful, ive only shot larger landscapes on it so far so it wasn't much of an issue, but am now shooting at things a bit closer, I guess I will find out tomorrow if the lighting conditions are ok!

I found this online calculator:

Online Depth of Field Calculator

 

[Hamish Gill]

If you set it to infinity or just short of you will get everything from around 20m to infinity in focus at f2.2

you will be fine shooting a 1/60th sec with a 55mm lens too ...

The lens won't be at its best wide open either ... So you might be better stopping down rather than a fast shutter speed ...

Some experimentation is of course required ... But I wouldn't worry too much! Take some photos ... Make notes of each shot if it helps ... It's all part of the learning curve

 

[Hamish Gill]

Couple of useful things to remember ... There is alway more infront of the point of focus that's in focus than behind
DOF calculators are useful, but with a camera like yours just look at the lens - see here http://www.realphotographersforum.com/content/281-how-zone-scale-focus.html
also ... I'm not sure where you have got this 1/10th of ISO for shutter speed??? But that doesn't make a great deal of sense to me ...
Shutter speed = focal length
is a reasonable starting point for a sharp photo
55mm = 1/60th
100mm = 1/100th
etc
1/60th is the lower safe shutter speed for any focal length ... 1/30th is fairly safe ... With a camera with little shutter vibration 1/15th or 1/8th can happen ... Depends on your technique/focal length/size of final image etc

 

[David Mitchell]

If you set it to infinity or just short of you will get everything from around 20m to infinity in focus at f2.2

you will be fine shooting a 1/60th sec with a 55mm lens too ...

The lens won't be at its best wide open either ... So you might be better stopping down rather than a fast shutter speed ...

Some experimentation is of course required ... But I wouldn't worry too much! Take some photos ... Make notes of each shot if it helps ... It's all part of the learning curve

Thanks Hamish, its all a learning curve, its why I have a D3100 and a selection of manual lenses so I can experiment without wasting film. The issue being is that my D3100 doesn't meter on manual mode like the slightly better DSLRs but neither do my older cameras so its good practice.

When I first started out I didn't really have much clue but its got to a point where I understand enough to realise I need to ask this sort of question - which means im gradually learning lol I guess I was worried that 1/60th shutter speed was too slow to hand hold. Its good though as my Bessa maxes out at 1/150th lol

I will have a go tomorrow and see what its like, I am really enjoying shooting with the Fujica 605N, its nice a simple with a nice clear meter and everything you need to know is right there in the view finder

As soon as I get a photo scanner I will get the negatives scanned in and put them up as my first ever test shots, looking at the cost of film it looks like I will look at 35mm a bit more, but I do like the MF cameras, there aren't many 'vintage' 35mms as they are mostly 120s or an obsolete film size.

 

[Hamish Gill]

There are a hell of a lot of vintage 35mm cameras David!! definitely no shortage!! It might not have been around for quite as long as 120 as a standard ... but its been pretty damn popular since the 30's ...
Some light reading:
Oskar Barnack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
35 mm film - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
135 film - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

your D3200 doesnt meter but you can use the histogram ... ... ... or just use an iphone light meter(?)

look for an epson v500 David, they are as good a scanner as most will ever need... they do 120 too

 

[David Mitchell]

What I mean is the much older cameras (like my Bessa and Kodak Six-20) don't take the 35mm, I am looking at getting a Zorki 4 at some point as well (can't really afford a Leica!). The cameras I like are the rather old cameras around pre 1930 it seems lol ie the box cameras and the folder cameras.

I am going to look at getting a Weston master V light meter soon, I would love one of those hot shoe light meters but firstly they are rather expensive and secondly, not many of my cameras have a hot shoe lol I used the 'sunny 16' rule for the Bessa, and didn't have a choice with the Kodak I will see if I can get a histogram up on my D3100, I know its ok on the kit lens, but seems to have no settings at all once you plug in a non CPU lens - I know better models allow you to tell the camera what lens it has (ie F stops) and it will meter from that. Mine doesn't have that feature unfortunatly so im having to take a photo and then check if its ok on screen.

Yeah, im planning on getting the V500, looked at reviews of the V300/330 but there are a LOT of issues with them, so im saving up for a V500. Its good that it has masks for 35mm and 120 roll, but about £300 cheaper than the V700 lol.

 

[Andy Boardman]

Just a small point but your D3100 Nikon will meter in manual setting, a quick read of the manual will sort that out for you.
Hope this helps.

 

[David Mitchell]

Just a small point but your D3100 Nikon will meter in manual setting, a quick read of the manual will sort that out for you.
Hope this helps.

I will have a check, im sure it will meter with a CPU lens attached, but due to my older lenses being used the camera doesn't even know its got a lens attached lol I will check the manual though

 

[Hamish Gill]

... yeah, I thought that Andy
But it does seem that the lower models dont ...

 

[Andy Boardman]

I do appologise to you & admit I am wrong LOL ,I have just tried it and no it does not meter with an older manual lens on it, tut tut shame on you Nikon.I was sure it did, I will have to try some other cameras now to see if those do or do not.

 

[David Mitchell]

Its an entry level DSLR, I know that the D5000 for example has an option in the menu for a non CPU lens along with exposure delay (to stop mirror wobble for landscapes) as well as bracket exposures for HDR etc. It would be cool if I could, but then again I bought the camera as a learning tool for my vintage cameras, most of which don't have metering lol so I guess its a good thing that it doesn't as I have to do the same as if I were using a vintage film camera. Perhaps in future I might upgrade to something better on the DSLR front, but its just a training tool at the moment really.

Also if you think about the sort of people who will have the D3100 they will probably either just have the kit lens or maybe 1 other DX lens in their bag so wouldn't have an issue with metering lol Im probably going to get a light meter soon anyway so that will help me out im lucky that the ST605N has a built in TTL meter anyway

 

[Larry Bolch]

It might be worth interjecting that if nothing is moving, long exposures are entirely practical. My favorite film of all time for available light architectural interiors was Kodak Ektar 25—ISO 25!

It was immune to reciprocity failure for up to 100 seconds, so I could just ignore it and not have to compensate. Of course a tripod is mandatory, and I generally used the self-timer to trip the shutter, avoiding vibration. On one shoot, I was doing eight second exposures in a crafts shop. One of the sales staff did not notice me and walked through the picture. Of course, I did another exposure, so it did not matter. However, when the film was developed I checked the one with the walk-through, and she did not even register on the film! Even just walking, she was never in a single place long enough to be recorded.

Long exposures are also very useful at night, and I have seen some fascinating landscapes illuminated by the moon, with star trails in the sky. They are also great for fireworks or lighting, allowing one to capture several bursts or bolts in a single shot. I set the exposure so the foreground is nicely exposed while maintaining the look of night. Either against a black sky is terminally boring, but comes alive when there is a sense of location and scale.

Lightning From My Balcony

 

[David Mitchell]

Right, I have just got back after a 2 hour walk and finished off the roll it seems that as today has been fairly sunny I didn't need to worry about having to run the lens wide open, was mainly using F8, F11 and F16 and also some quite high shutter speeds. I think its due to the fact that I have ISO 400 film loaded into it, I have another few rolls of it but will also get some ISO 200 or ISO 100 film as well. The colour film I have is ISO 200 so I might shoot a colour roll next.

I am going to walk back down town to drop off the film - hopefully they are able to handle B&W film, I have a feeling that I will soon be getting some dark room chemicals very soon if not!

 

[David Mitchell]

No, they can't develop them, I will try a larger store and see if they can, if not I will send them over to Wales again it looks like its a bit too expensive to shoot black and white at the moment so I will definatly be looking into getting my own tank and developing my own black and white and just getting the colour 35mm processed and printed (you can't scan colour negatives it seems).

 

[Hamish Gill]

Wales is your best bet!

Why can't you scan colour?

 

[David Mitchell]

Wales is your best bet!

Why can't you scan colour?

As in colour negatives, apparently due to the orange mask its quite hard to get a good scan and then correct the colour - unless im missing something? I will be getting a scanner anyway so I will try and scan some old colour negatives.

It looks like I will go down 2 routes:

Black and white - develop myself and scan in negatives
Colour - get developed and processed else where and scan in the prints

 

[Hamish Gill]

I've never noticed any issues ...
I wouldn't worry ... I've never heard of such an issue, never mind knowingly experienced it!

 

[Larry Bolch]

As in colour negatives, apparently due to the orange mask its quite hard to get a good scan and then correct the colour - unless im missing something? I will be getting a scanner anyway so I will try and scan some old colour negatives.

I get scans that are every bit as good off negatives as I do off chromes—perhaps better. I suspect that it is a problem with the person doing the scanning. Using EpsonScan with my old but excellent 4870, it is simply a matter of selecting Film instead of Reflective, and Colour Negative as the film type. The preview comes up with an image that is generally fairly close. Select the image and click the auto-exposure and often that is all that is needed. If it is shot under odd lighting conditions, clicking a known neutral with the eyedropper in the histogram adjustment almost always provides a decent colour balance. As long as it is reasonably close, precise colour balance can be fine tuned in Photoshop, where the tools are much better.