Steve Boykin
Well-Known Member
X Pro + 35mm
USA
- Thread starter Steve Boykin
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Pete Askew
Admin
Poignant given the recent terrible events. As I've said before, I do like these, almost minimalist, views of the everyday you produce every now and then Steve.
Steve Boykin
Well-Known Member
I drive past this every time I take my dogs to the nature center. It's not something I discuss with people here in Texas. I was a great disappointment to my grandfather because I didn't like to hunt. I'm sure that's more than I needed to or should say. Thanks guys!
Chris Dodkin
West Coast Correspondent
It is indeed scary stuff Steve
Beth Carter
Well-Known Member
i can only imagine. but things are pretty different in the south.
Steve Boykin
Well-Known Member
I have serious doubts any type of gun regulations can be made in the US. The hunting culture in this region is very deeply engrained in the collective psyche. Then there are people who imagine the country will be invaded or the "Government is going to take over" (I've actually heard that exact expression). With the latter there is really no point in having a candid debate because rational thought is clearly beyond on holiday and has permanently retired. When my grandfather used to hunt it was with a single shot bolt action rifle. They all use to where bright orange too for obvious reasons. I don't have a problem with that per se. Now they wear special camouflage, scent blocker, hide in a deer stand, and put out a corn feeder to lure the deer, then multi-shot rifles. I don't get it.
I also don't get going to shooting ranges to blast away at human silhouette targets.
When my grandfather died he left me several guns. I didn't want them so I sold them to a friend. This was the 1970's and I was much younger. But that illustrates the difficulty you would have. They are just everywhere. I'm sure most owners are law abiding. However, I do feel there is now (unlike the 1970's) a bit of an unhealthy fetish with personal protection and a completely unrealistic fear of crime. Most of the crime is committed where most of these gun owners don't live. And...is it really worth killing someone over a TV set?
Sorry for the rant. I hope I'm not going to get banned. Everyone has been very kind to me here. I know my photos are boring. Again, my sincerest apologies.
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Pete Askew
Admin
Why would you be banned?! One of the great things about RPF is that we have these interesting exchanges and the image raises so many questions many of which a re related to what you have said. The issue certainly is complex and it would certainly be difficult to instigate some sort of restrictions. But change really is needed it seems, at least in the minds of those drawn to firearms. I guess one of the problems is that there is now this overlap between the real (luring deer to be shot at like some sort of shooting range) and the virtual (games with shooting etc as the main theme). It surely must have an impact on some people who lose site of the reality of their actions.
As a child I had an air rifle and, for a few years used to shoot targets (and model planes etc) in the garden, but never living subjects. Later, due to the interest of a friend, I joined a shooting club (indoors at a military college) and leaned to shoot with live ammunition. The challenge of getting a well-grouped score was quite interesting but there was a lot of hanging around waiting your turn and after a few months I lost interest. What was disturbing though was that there were members who were absolutely obsessed with guns and shooting; frighteningly so.
A difficult issue and an interesting subject. And it is still a great image (for lots of reasons).
As a child I had an air rifle and, for a few years used to shoot targets (and model planes etc) in the garden, but never living subjects. Later, due to the interest of a friend, I joined a shooting club (indoors at a military college) and leaned to shoot with live ammunition. The challenge of getting a well-grouped score was quite interesting but there was a lot of hanging around waiting your turn and after a few months I lost interest. What was disturbing though was that there were members who were absolutely obsessed with guns and shooting; frighteningly so.
A difficult issue and an interesting subject. And it is still a great image (for lots of reasons).
Steve Boykin
Well-Known Member
Well Pete one can certainly see the Freudian implications of a rifle named the Bushmaster. I am half way joking and half way serious. Again, I don't hunt but I'm not opposed to it. I think the idea of someone hunting with a Bushmaster is just plain silly.
The problem here in the US is we are so divided. They have gerrymandered the Congressional voting districts to such a degree that reasonable compromise on serious issues is just about impossible. Do I think people need to own assault rifles? Absolutely not. Do I think there are people who can own them responsibly. Absolutely yes. However the argument now is either a complete ban or virtually no regulation whatsoever. Any middle ground is lost in a bunch of shouting.
There is a really great study of this in this book:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Big-Sor...7723/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355837814&sr=8-1
I don't think the full implications of this "sorting" has been fully realized yet. It's still by historical standards a relatively new reality. However, one has to only look at the vote totals for each candidate in most states to see there isn't a lot of middle ground left out there.
There is a place not to far from where I live that's a "gun training" center. I've been there. What you do is shoot at human silhouette targets and train in their "urban warfare" simulation. I find it a bit disturbing but if you can do that and not shoot a real person I suppose I have little right to object. I'm just remain unconvinced that the bulk of the people going there don't secretly long for some kind of scenario where they get to use that training.
The problem here in the US is we are so divided. They have gerrymandered the Congressional voting districts to such a degree that reasonable compromise on serious issues is just about impossible. Do I think people need to own assault rifles? Absolutely not. Do I think there are people who can own them responsibly. Absolutely yes. However the argument now is either a complete ban or virtually no regulation whatsoever. Any middle ground is lost in a bunch of shouting.
There is a really great study of this in this book:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Big-Sor...7723/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355837814&sr=8-1
I don't think the full implications of this "sorting" has been fully realized yet. It's still by historical standards a relatively new reality. However, one has to only look at the vote totals for each candidate in most states to see there isn't a lot of middle ground left out there.
There is a place not to far from where I live that's a "gun training" center. I've been there. What you do is shoot at human silhouette targets and train in their "urban warfare" simulation. I find it a bit disturbing but if you can do that and not shoot a real person I suppose I have little right to object. I'm just remain unconvinced that the bulk of the people going there don't secretly long for some kind of scenario where they get to use that training.
Hamish Gill
Tech Support (and Marketing)
A very interesting photo and thread ...
I'm pleased this convo grew legs outside of Ahmad's thread.
I grew up in the countryside with guns, and shot animals ... Makes me feel odd to think of it now... I tend to shoe flys out of a room rather than kill them these days. I'm the same human being with a different outlook on life to one I had before ... Before I was a kid.
I still like target sports though, I would shoot an air pistol at a target and enjoy being good at it if I had the time to do it ... I wouldn't kill anything now though!
And everyone having guns, them being a part of culture, is all having the right to protect ourselves with such force ... Madness!
I keep swing these things on Facebook saying "If you make guns illegal do you think that will stop criminals getting hold of them" obviously from th US ... Well criminals get guns over here ... But because you can't buy them with your cornflakes there are a few less ... And because of that barely recordable levels of deaths because of guns.
its fairly simple logic really
I'm pleased this convo grew legs outside of Ahmad's thread.
I grew up in the countryside with guns, and shot animals ... Makes me feel odd to think of it now... I tend to shoe flys out of a room rather than kill them these days. I'm the same human being with a different outlook on life to one I had before ... Before I was a kid.
I still like target sports though, I would shoot an air pistol at a target and enjoy being good at it if I had the time to do it ... I wouldn't kill anything now though!
And everyone having guns, them being a part of culture, is all having the right to protect ourselves with such force ... Madness!
I keep swing these things on Facebook saying "If you make guns illegal do you think that will stop criminals getting hold of them" obviously from th US ... Well criminals get guns over here ... But because you can't buy them with your cornflakes there are a few less ... And because of that barely recordable levels of deaths because of guns.
its fairly simple logic really
Steve Boykin
Well-Known Member
One of the things I find interesting in a couple of the replies is air gun or air pistol. Here it's semi automatic assault rifles and the targets at many of the gun ranges are human silhouettes. Again, I'm sure 99.99% of the people are not going to kill someone. I don't know what the answer is. I suppose you guys have figured out I'm pretty far to the left of the American mainstream. That said, I think there is a middle ground but I'm just not sure it's politically feasible to get there in the US anymore. It's very a different gun ownership arena than when I was a teenager and went hunting (I never shot a deer or anything else for that matter, again I'm not opposed just a softie). Witness this:
LaRue Tactical | The Dead Center of Precision
They even sell gift cards.... This is not about hunting but about a fantasy. Or reality I suppose if we are talking Iraq or Afghanistan (or Syria for that matter).
LaRue Tactical | The Dead Center of Precision
They even sell gift cards.... This is not about hunting but about a fantasy. Or reality I suppose if we are talking Iraq or Afghanistan (or Syria for that matter).
Brian Moore
Moderator
When I was about 6 I had a slingshot. One of those Y-shaped slings you could buy in a newsagents shop in the UK at the time. One day I fired a pebble at a sparrow I saw in a tree. To my surprise, I actually hit the poor wee thing and it fell from the tree dead. I felt shame and regret. That moment shaped me, I think. No guns for me. And I despise the NRA for their lobbying tactics.
Nice picture though, Steve. A very "this is America" image.
Nice picture though, Steve. A very "this is America" image.
Darren Bradnock
Well-Known Member
Not sure if i should jump into this or not. I don't know exactly how easy it is to get firearms in the US but i know it's different from one state to the next with California having the biggest restrictions from what i've seen on a gun forum i'm on. Over here in NZ you have to have a get a firearms license and to get it you have to do a firearms safety course, then they interview the people you put down as a referee. That gets you a category A license which lets you own bolt actions, pump action, semi auto (not military style), there are other classes of license if you want pistols or full auto restricted weapons, and a special class for military style semi auto's such as AR-15's. It's even harder in Australia, i have a bolt action Mauser actioned rifle and a ruger 10/22 semi auto .22, both have silencers on, but in Australia silencers are illegal, and can't have a semi auto .22 without another class of license. I think they need to be harder to get but i don't think military style firearms should be banned completely. People have been killing each other long before guns were invented, it's human nature unfortunately. If all the guns were gone it wouldn't have taken away what ever triggered the shooting spree, it wouldn't have taken away what ever's wired wrong in his head, your just changing the weapon used. If he didn't have guns he might've run the kids down with a car when school was out. Gun's don't kill people, People kill people. These school shootings are a terrible thing and as much as i like guns there is no justification for any of them. But not to belittle them in any way but if there was this much reaction and outcry when when someone died from alcohol related incidents they would've banned it long ago. How many people are killed by drunk drivers or drunken violence etc? There are hundreds of thousands of law abiding gun owners who don't want to be penalized because of the actions of a handful. Maybe people with family members who have known mental issues shouldn't be allowed firearms? Can't say that though, can't single out the mentally challenged. I just don't know how much difference gun restriction are really gonna make.
Beth Carter
Well-Known Member
unfortunately, i think the conn. incident would have occurred whether the shooter had access to a gun or not. i think it's sad, but without proper intervention, some people with issues are going to go off to commit acts like this and it's unavoidable.
but the school shootings are just the tip of the iceburg in gun crimes in america. delaware is the second smallest state in the us. we had 28 murders just in the city of wilmington (70k pop) this year, mostly shootings. and many more shootings where the person didn't die from their injuries. the majority of the weapons taken off of the street (or bullets pulled out of people) were illegally obtained. so whatever washington decides to do with gun control is going to be ineffective.
but the school shootings are just the tip of the iceburg in gun crimes in america. delaware is the second smallest state in the us. we had 28 murders just in the city of wilmington (70k pop) this year, mostly shootings. and many more shootings where the person didn't die from their injuries. the majority of the weapons taken off of the street (or bullets pulled out of people) were illegally obtained. so whatever washington decides to do with gun control is going to be ineffective.
Brian Moore
Moderator
Well,...we should probably start talking more about photography again. Its hard not to respond, though. The guns used at Sandy Hook were legally obtained, I believe. Therein lies a problem.
Hamish Gill
Tech Support (and Marketing)
people might kill people, but guns, and easy to obtain ones at that make it considerably easier to go on a killing spree.
Brian Moore
Moderator
Exactly the point that is being ignored by so many.
Hamish Gill
Tech Support (and Marketing)
It seems pretty obvious to me ... But it is often overlooked it seems ...
the comparisons to alcohol don't stand up either for me ...
alcohols sole function is not to kill.
the comparisons to alcohol don't stand up either for me ...
alcohols sole function is not to kill.
Darren Bradnock
Well-Known Member
i agree easy to get guns do make it easier for someone to go on a killing spree. Problem is the number of firearms out there it's probably not hard to get something if they really wanted. Besides getting rid of assault rifles just means they'll do they same thing with shotguns. Gun controls affect the law abiding more than the criminals. But yes they definitely need to make it harder to get a firearm. As far as alcohol function being not to kill, your right. But neither is a target rifle but you can still use it to kill.
Ask someone who's family member was killed by a drunk driver. Drunk drivers kill, people get killed in drunken fights, some alcoholics drink themselves to death etc etc etc. If you check the stats alcohol is probably responsible for more deaths and violence than guns. But just like most gun owners shoot responsibly, the majority of people drink responsibly.
Anyway i think maybe we should get back to photography.
Ask someone who's family member was killed by a drunk driver. Drunk drivers kill, people get killed in drunken fights, some alcoholics drink themselves to death etc etc etc. If you check the stats alcohol is probably responsible for more deaths and violence than guns. But just like most gun owners shoot responsibly, the majority of people drink responsibly.
Anyway i think maybe we should get back to photography.
