As My Dysfunctional "government" ...

that's why we're government employees and not workers. our motto at work is "i'm not happy until you're not happy."
enjoy your beer and break from politics. to be honest we probably won't see any difference in service.
Beth...as a retired Navy "employee" who has a large number of dedicated civilian friends who work their tails off and are available 24/7...who are being told that they aren't worthy of their pay...while idiots play political games...it pisses me off. It also drives me crazy to hear these same people...who have health care insurance...say by holding the country hostage...that 30 million Americans aren't worthy of the same treatment. That's not the country I defended for 40 years.
 
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I realise how divisive this whole issue is (we have American friends who we though were highly rational who almost explode if this topic is raised, and in the most opposing manner than we would have expected) but it is something of a mystery to 'us' over in Europe. The healthcare reform sounds so sensible (as it brings the US system a bit closer to the system we have in much of the EU) but clearly some fear the changes it will bring. There must be a lot in the detail that we just don't 'get'.
 
I realise how divisive this whole issue is....There must be a lot in the detail that we just don't 'get'.
Pete...There most likely no detail you don't get...it's those over here that have problem getting the details. I'm betting that those Americans you speak of have insurance and simply don't care about those who don't. This program does nothing more than allow people who don't have health insurance...note I'm not saying health care...the ability to get it. Because the government is mandating it...it has to be bad. This country is the only industrilized country in the world that doesn't have at least a health care insurance requirement. I'm married to Canadian...who as a Dean of Nursing sees the horrible results of this everywhere...every day. She is constantly refuting the falsehoods spread by the extreme right...which play to the "I got mine...screw you" mentality that is bringing this country down a path that I for one never thought would happen. It's a sad and scary time here...and frankly I doubt it's going to get better real soon.
 
I'm not putting the TV on this morning, because this cluster @#$# is all they'll want to talk about on the news

So if you can't win the election, and can't then sway the elected officials - why not just derail the whole process of government to get what you want.... :mad:
 
Can anyone outside of the USA imagine their "Government" saying...you no longer have a right to affordable health care? From now on...just the workers who have an employer who feels like providing it and only you rich people can get it.

Trust me I realize that there is no perfect health care...and every country has it's complaints. But what would you do without it?

I have to stop now...I think my blood pressure needs attending.
 
my problem with the affordable healthcare plan is that it isn't affordable to the people who need it. in delaware the plans start at $200/month. kentucky news last night gave even higher prices for kentuckians. there are state of delaware contractors who i work with who are not eligible for state employee insurance or medicare and can't afford the $200/month on an $1800/month salary. most of the state's it department consists of contractors and will be fined in the future for not having healthcare.
 
my problem with the affordable healthcare plan is that it isn't affordable to the people who need it. in delaware the plans start at $200/month. kentucky news last night gave even higher prices for kentuckians. there are state of delaware contractors who i work with who are not eligible for state employee insurance or medicare and can't afford the $200/month on an $1800/month salary. most of the state's it department consists of contractors and will be fined in the future for not having healthcare.

Sorry...this is going to be long...
Beth... First...I understand that the cost of anything when you only make $20K a year is difficult. It is a matter of personal choice though. Who is paying for their health care when they get sick if they don't have insurance? One ER for a cold...which are inundated daily btw...visit could bankrupt them. Did you know that medical bills are a major factor in more than 60 percent of the personal bankruptcies in the United States. Of those bankruptcies that were caused by medical bills, approximately 75 percent of them involved individuals that actually did have health insurance. Do you know how Canadians had that happen? ZERO! The most expensive thing a person can do is go the ER but that's all they have when they have no insurance. It's killing the whole system. When the rest of the worlds healthcare pros look at us...and hears these things...they are astonished. We spend the most on health care...with close to the worst outcomes.

I have absolutely no sympathy for employers who don't give health care benefits...especially government contractors. For them to say they can't afford it is BS. Most contracts are awarded with costs as a majority decision maker. If every employer is required to provide insurance...which is one of thing best things in ACA...it all starts on an equal playing field. Also...if they provide insurance...they will attract better workers. I reviewed and worked with too many contractors to let them by with that BS. They are just making a political statement.

Next...and I'll let it go. There is a lot of misinformation out there. I do not believe anything anyone one says on the news anymore. Especially one certain one that begins with F. I live with someone who can answer any question...but I still check for myself. So...I just checked the Delaware site...and ran the numbers. For a 30 year old non-smoking individual making $1800/month...$21600 year...after the tax credits are applied it is less than $100.00. I'm sorry...that's simple not too much for health insurance that allows you to pick a doctor and gives you preventative care for a co-pay. That's not too much to pay for living a life without fear of going to a doctor...or going bankrupt if you get sick.

Beth...sorry...I hope you don't take this personal. It's just my own frustration showing. I was $250,000.00 in debt by the time my first wife died of Breast Cancer. I lived through this WITH insurance so one thing I pledged was I was going to stand up to misinformation and the politicking of health care. Of course...now I also now live with someone who is not only living it locally...but on a national level...so it is always part of our daily discussions.
 
sorry glenn, i'm still oh the road and using my phone so this will be short. i'm not saying that the country doesn't need an affordable healthvare plan, simply saying that this one isn't affordable. as for companies not offering contractors healthcare plans then that's something that should have been addressed in the aca. the gov't shouldn't fine the contractors for not having what they can't afford. if the lovely politicians of delaware let that sort of thing happen to their public servants then how can i expect them to treat someone who buys their healthcare any better? biden is from delaware and that is the best they can do.

the $200/month quote is what went out on the brochures they passed around at work a few weeks back. it didn't affect me so i didn't read all of the fine print. the lowest quote i saw that wasn't catastrophic coverage (ie, let you see a doctor on a regular basis for preventative measures) was $200/month.

canada doesn't have bankruptcy due to medical problems because (i believe, but didn't bother to fact check so i could be wrong) they pay the medical bills rather than force citizens to purchase unaffordable medical insurance plans through the government.

so again, something does need to be done, i just don't think this is the right solution for our country.
 
i missed your last part glenn. i'm really sorry to hear about your first wife. but that is part of the problem that the aca doesn't address. a govt cap on healthcare costs or govt paid healthcare like in canada would be more helpful financially than govt healthcare plans.
 
sorry glenn, i'm still oh the road and using my phone so this will be short. i'm not saying that the country doesn't need an affordable healthvare plan, simply saying that this one isn't affordable. as for companies not offering contractors healthcare plans then that's something that should have been addressed in the aca. the gov't shouldn't fine the contractors for not having what they can't afford. if the lovely politicians of delaware let that sort of thing happen to their public servants then how can i expect them to treat someone who buys their healthcare any better? biden is from delaware and that is the best they can do.

I'm putting my answers in bold...The ACA does address the issue. They extended the requirement a year so that the businesses' can catch up. The country can't afford the way it's being done now. This is an attempt to hold down costs and that's factually being proved more and more correct btw. Of course the anti care crowd is saying otherwise...but the costs are growing at the slowest rates in years and the costs of the plans are much lower than predicted.

the $200/month quote is what went out on the brochures they passed around at work a few weeks back. it didn't affect me so i didn't read all of the fine print. the lowest quote i saw that wasn't catastrophic coverage (ie, let you see a doctor on a regular basis for preventative measures) was $200/month.

Again...I'm just trying to correct the mis-information. Yes...the intial cost is $200...but that is reduced if you have a lower income. You are just passing on what you know...but you don't know the whole picture. That's my objection with the media...they only give you a little information according to their particular ideal.

canada doesn't have bankruptcy due to medical problems because (i believe, but didn't bother to fact check so i could be wrong) they pay the medical bills rather than force citizens to purchase unaffordable medical insurance plans through the government.

First of all...the ACA does not force citizens to purchase unaffordable medical insurance plans through the government. They simply say if you don't have insurance you have to pay your way instead of letting those that do... pay for you. The insurance is NOT through the government...and if you have insurance you don't have to do anything. The government simple points individuals to insurance companies who are bidding on your business. They do tell those insurance companies that they have to follow some basic rules...no preconditions...preventive care mandatory...child can stay on parents until 26...etc.
Ok...now about Canada. Of course the law is more complicated than I can type in a few minutes...but I'll try to hit the high points. First...I agree. The single payer systems work better...cheaper with better outcomes...but it's a misnomer that they don't have insurance plans. This country is not ready for single payer yet so what the ACA did was try to do something. In Canada the Federal Government basically says...all the Provinces must provide basic health care insurance. Yes...I said insurance. The main difference there is docs/hospitals handle the claims directly. The government is the insurance company per say. The feds pay for that by taxes...CHST (I think)... from individual/corporations income. That is divided up among the Provinces to pay the insurance claims. Then most Provinces taxes...GST...basically everything that people buy to pay for the insurance of the citizens in their specific Province. And yes some charge premiums. Also...if you want to go beyond the basic...you have to buy it. So...no...they don't make you buy insurance directly from insurance companies...they make you buy your insurance by paying significant taxes, premiums, and they then pay the insurance claims. Each Canadian must apply for and use an insurance card when they go to the docs/hospitals. The main point that should be noted is...Canada doesn't spend anywhere near what the USA does for healthcare and has significantly better outcomes. Approximately 9.5% of Canada's gross domestic product is spent on health care. In comparison, the United States spends close to 14% of its GDP on health care. They also live longer...and have much lower child mortality rates...etc.


so again, something does need to be done, i just don't think this is the right solution for our country.

Exactly why I'm discussing this with you Beth. You...like many citizens say that this isn't the right solution for this country...and then say things are not factual. I feel the need to explain. I have no problem with people who suggest a better way. Better has to be cheaper with better outcomes though... And when you do that...you are only going to find that the rest of the industrialized world does it better.
 
i missed your last part glenn. i'm really sorry to hear about your first wife. but that is part of the problem that the aca doesn't address. a govt cap on healthcare costs or govt paid healthcare like in canada would be more helpful financially than govt healthcare plans.

Ya...you have to click on expand because I'm damn long winded...but that's ok Beth. She would be happy to hear me discuss this with you.

And again...the ACA does address this. The reason this happened to us was a preexisting condition and refusal to cover some procedure. It is exactly what the ACA would have helped with.
 
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