Tom Dinning
Well-Known Member
First installment.
If you want the second set, let me know.
If you want the second set, let me know.
Excuse me, gentlemen.
- Thread starter Tom Dinning
- Start date
Rob MacKillop
Edinburgh Correspondent
I was getting worried while scrolling down, wondering how far you were going to strip! 
The second shot is the best. Maybe the first.
The second shot is the best. Maybe the first.
Pete Askew
Admin
An interesting sequence there Tom. Now, as for the second set, that all depends...
Brian Moore
Moderator
Thought provoking! My thought is,..."What the hell...?" 
Another thought: I wouldn't think that way if the subject were a young and pretty lady.
Yes,...thought provoking Tom.
Another thought: I wouldn't think that way if the subject were a young and pretty lady.
Yes,...thought provoking Tom.
Tom Dinning
Well-Known Member
Life isn't all tits and bums and pretty faces, guys.
It has it's ordinary side as well. This is the only body I have. It's been around for near 70 years and I hope it does me for another 10. I live with a woman who is 10 years my junior and she is stunningly beautiful to my eyes. I would look at her any day over the glossy, plastic dolls you post here. Eye candy is just that. Sweet but temporary. They can be titilating for some, suggestive to others but beyond that, they serve little purpose but to compromise both the photographer and the model. We, as men, have discussions like this at the expense of the women we look at or photograph. Your reactions to my photos might be considered evidence to the affirmative.
Bless your boyish hearts.
It has it's ordinary side as well. This is the only body I have. It's been around for near 70 years and I hope it does me for another 10. I live with a woman who is 10 years my junior and she is stunningly beautiful to my eyes. I would look at her any day over the glossy, plastic dolls you post here. Eye candy is just that. Sweet but temporary. They can be titilating for some, suggestive to others but beyond that, they serve little purpose but to compromise both the photographer and the model. We, as men, have discussions like this at the expense of the women we look at or photograph. Your reactions to my photos might be considered evidence to the affirmative.
Bless your boyish hearts.
Brian Moore
Moderator
I think you've misjudged us, Tom.
Tom Dinning
Well-Known Member
Two things, Brian.
I'm discussing the ethical nature of photographs as compared to any other aspect that might arise. That seems to be a legitimate path to follow. I'm sure each of you have an opinion or even some data to back up any argument.
You may be right about making judgements. Judgements are often unavoidable when criticizing a photo. I haven't really discussed the content or asked the photographer what intent he had in a photograph of , say, a half naked young woman coming out of a pool pulling at her nickers and looking the viewer in the eye in a seductive and suggestive way. But somehow it's hard no to make judgements about the content and purpose in the modern context. We're not talking Raphael or Rembrandt after all. We are discussing a few blokes ogling over tits and bums in a somewhat private place with a subtle warning over the viewing place.
Don't get me wrong here. I like a bit of soft porn just like the next bloke. I might even visit a hard porn site from time to time. But I know what to expect and I know what my purpose is. I also am aware that the models have the same intent and so does the photographer.
I'm discussing the ethical nature of photographs as compared to any other aspect that might arise. That seems to be a legitimate path to follow. I'm sure each of you have an opinion or even some data to back up any argument.
You may be right about making judgements. Judgements are often unavoidable when criticizing a photo. I haven't really discussed the content or asked the photographer what intent he had in a photograph of , say, a half naked young woman coming out of a pool pulling at her nickers and looking the viewer in the eye in a seductive and suggestive way. But somehow it's hard no to make judgements about the content and purpose in the modern context. We're not talking Raphael or Rembrandt after all. We are discussing a few blokes ogling over tits and bums in a somewhat private place with a subtle warning over the viewing place.
Don't get me wrong here. I like a bit of soft porn just like the next bloke. I might even visit a hard porn site from time to time. But I know what to expect and I know what my purpose is. I also am aware that the models have the same intent and so does the photographer.
Brian Moore
Moderator
Respectfully, Tom,...your intent is quite unclear to me.
Pete Askew
Admin
I too think you misjudge, or maybe the word is generalise, some here too much. Yes we do have at least one member who is presenting images of young ladies at the moment. His reasons are his own and, like all of his work, the photographs are well executed and, I assume, being used by the models to forward the career they have chosen (or hope to enter). I try to give feedback on them as I do most of the images posted here - an opinion rather than a judgement (who am I to judge?). As a general area of discussion though this is interesting.
The membership of RPF is mostly male that is true and it is rare that one of our lady members comments (or maybe even visits) the forum in which the image you cite is posted. Many that do may well be disappointed with the content they find there (maybe even offended) but others (and I can think of at least one) would be interested in some of the images as she takes image of many models for a variety of purposes (although she rarely posts much here - due to lack of time for the most part). However, the point you seem to be making is relevant and raises issues generally (but not specifically to RPF I think) and Brian's first comment summarises that. Seeing an image of you emerging from a pool while tugging at your bathing costume and looking into the lens would be interesting I think. In fact, I would find it more interesting than the more conventional one that Chris posted. Whether such an was created as a satire or not would probably alter my perception of it but, if well executed, I would still enjoy viewing it, in the same way I enjoy the images posted by Asun. So let me post this link as a counterpoint.
http://www.realphotographersforum.com/forum/threads/in-the-heat-of-the-spanish-summer.3043/
The membership of RPF is mostly male that is true and it is rare that one of our lady members comments (or maybe even visits) the forum in which the image you cite is posted. Many that do may well be disappointed with the content they find there (maybe even offended) but others (and I can think of at least one) would be interested in some of the images as she takes image of many models for a variety of purposes (although she rarely posts much here - due to lack of time for the most part). However, the point you seem to be making is relevant and raises issues generally (but not specifically to RPF I think) and Brian's first comment summarises that. Seeing an image of you emerging from a pool while tugging at your bathing costume and looking into the lens would be interesting I think. In fact, I would find it more interesting than the more conventional one that Chris posted. Whether such an was created as a satire or not would probably alter my perception of it but, if well executed, I would still enjoy viewing it, in the same way I enjoy the images posted by Asun. So let me post this link as a counterpoint.
http://www.realphotographersforum.com/forum/threads/in-the-heat-of-the-spanish-summer.3043/
Tom Dinning
Well-Known Member
My interest here is academic only. I'm interested in reading why people take photos of any sort. I'm also interested in the interpretation of photos. I've been criticizing photos all my adult life but I do distinguish that from opinion or judgement.
Often, opinion and judgement are indistinguishable or at least one leads to the other. A significant part of criticism of any art work (although not all photographs are art, even if they are intended to be so ) is to consider the intent of the photographer and the degree of success of the photographer in achieving that intent. The tools the photographer use to achieve success are built around elements of design and composition. But one cannot take away the fact that the photographer must build the image from what is already there. If the photographer chooses to use the human torso as the starting point then they will use the compositional tools to generate a particular effect with a particular intent in mind. If I am to critique such an image then it is important that I put aside my personal judgements and opinions and determine what the photographer had in mind. If no intent is forthcoming I am left with determining the success of the photograph from past work, context, social norms, historical and geographical context and the surrounding conditions of placement.
Whether I like the photo or the subject matter is neither here nor there.
As with these photos, I would suggest that those that looked would know what might be forthcoming. The intent and expectation is there. It has been established by the photographer. We have a sense of what is expected, as we might if we were to see a photograph of a naked woman in a particular context. So, how does the photographer deal,with public perception? The photographer explains and places the photograph in the context it was designed to fit. Then and only then can an appropriate and relevant critique be provided. Forums such as this have a loosely bound context so it is important that the photographer be clear in their intent so as not to confuse the viewer.
Often, opinion and judgement are indistinguishable or at least one leads to the other. A significant part of criticism of any art work (although not all photographs are art, even if they are intended to be so ) is to consider the intent of the photographer and the degree of success of the photographer in achieving that intent. The tools the photographer use to achieve success are built around elements of design and composition. But one cannot take away the fact that the photographer must build the image from what is already there. If the photographer chooses to use the human torso as the starting point then they will use the compositional tools to generate a particular effect with a particular intent in mind. If I am to critique such an image then it is important that I put aside my personal judgements and opinions and determine what the photographer had in mind. If no intent is forthcoming I am left with determining the success of the photograph from past work, context, social norms, historical and geographical context and the surrounding conditions of placement.
Whether I like the photo or the subject matter is neither here nor there.
As with these photos, I would suggest that those that looked would know what might be forthcoming. The intent and expectation is there. It has been established by the photographer. We have a sense of what is expected, as we might if we were to see a photograph of a naked woman in a particular context. So, how does the photographer deal,with public perception? The photographer explains and places the photograph in the context it was designed to fit. Then and only then can an appropriate and relevant critique be provided. Forums such as this have a loosely bound context so it is important that the photographer be clear in their intent so as not to confuse the viewer.
Paul Lange
Moderator
Interesting and thought provoking, Tom. I do wonder though what you would have posted if you had seen Chris's posts from the beginning. There has been a startling development in the photography and the relationship between Chris and the model. Intentional, yes, but maybe not intentioned as an artistic statement. However, I found this unfolding story more interesting and greater than the sum of the parts (even the naughty ones).
I would stick my neck out and say that the intention was to share the results of a continuing and substantial amount of effort to improve and I believe that this is clear. The bums and tits are just an occupational hazard.
I would stick my neck out and say that the intention was to share the results of a continuing and substantial amount of effort to improve and I believe that this is clear. The bums and tits are just an occupational hazard.
Ivar Dahl-Larsen
Well-Known Member
Very well said Paul and I cannot hide the fact that those images please me as well as many other images do here. Sometimes a photographer wants to share with her / his mates here on the forum what they themselves like and have achieved. It doesn't have to be more than that, and sometimes get feed back on how to improve upon them as well. It's been said before here that ; if you do not like an image, stay cool and do not leave a comment. If you find that you in all due respect, want to present a constructive criticism after having been invited to do so, please go ahead. Does it have to be more than that?
Tom Dinning
Well-Known Member
That's a strange thing to say, Paul. Surely tit and bums is hardly incidental as you suggest. Subject matter in ahotograph is key to understanding. Composition involves ensuring the subject matter of importance is predominant, or at least a key factor. Photographing a woman dresses or partly dressed and presenting the body in a particular manner is totally in the hands of the photographer. Irrespective of any relationship between photographer and model, the choice is there's and there's alone. Hazards such as this can be avoided but Chris has chosen not to. As someone who finds the photograph interesting in many ways, I am asking Chris why he has included the content in the manner. What is his intent? How would he see the photograph affecting people? Has the photo achieved what he set out to achieve.
We will all have out point of view on any image. It can be quite different from the photographers point of view. To be critical, one needs to remove personal preferences from their thoughts and consider the actions of the photographer and the final product: the image. Technical improvement is one thing and is certainly necessary but it is not the end result, it is a means to an end. The end is a visual stimulation as a result of viewing a photograph. That visual stimulation will have an impact on our thoughts and ideas. If the photographer is serious about improving they must consider this aspect of photography as well.
If the only purpose in posting a photograph here is to determine who likes it and what camera was used then have a few jokes about tits and bums then it's no wonder there are only a few regular contributors.
I like a laugh as much as the next bloke. I like a nice pair of tits on a good looking woman as well. I'm just trying to get past that. My mother said I'd go blind if I kept that sort of stuff up. I think she was right. My vision is fading somewhat.
My mother also said that if I couldn't say anything nice don't say anything at all. What a load of bullshit. Sorry mum. Stroking the ego of a lousy photographer just makes for a lousy photographer.
Hamish Gill
Tech Support (and Marketing)
Be critical if you want to be critical Tom, put your money where you mouth is, rather than talking around the subject.
I'd love to see more critique around here, I'd love to see more members, posting more regularly... Maybe you're the man to catalyse a change around here toward more constructive criticism, and maybe that in turn would make more people engage and stay here...?
But also maybe that would just turn this place into the same as every other forum, where the man with the loudest voice (figuratively speaking), only just over shadows all the other shouting fools wasting their breath on the internet, forgetting that for quite a few people out there, photography is just fun, is just a bit of t&a, is just an escape, a past time, and just something to enjoy for their own reasons; and then share with a few other like minded folks in a quiet unassuming corner of the internet.
Maybe not ... I guess time will tell ...
I must admit to having found many of your posts interesting and engaging. I don't post very often any more myself (and I made the place), and you have certainly inspired me to post something!
Watch the patronising tone though please, we longest standing members have 4 years of discussion behind us here. Much of what you say has been covered. And whilst I welcome covering any of it again, let's do it in a way that we can all enjoy it yeah? The last guy who started down the "Stroking the ego of a bad photographer, just makes a bad photographer" road eventually contacted me personally asking to be banned after finding he had little self control in picking at people but was terminally frustrated by other members here not giving a shit for his commentary. His name was Lee Webb, look him up if you like
In short, be critical if you like, open discussion on people's posts about their images ... I'd love to hear your thoughts on my photos ... But don't be a clever dick about it, it gets tedious really fucking quickly, and I haven't got the time or inclination to go through the time consuming and predictable process of dealing with people complaining about you etc etc ...
Hope you don't mind the forthright comment, you strike me as the sort that would respond positively to it?
I'd love to see more critique around here, I'd love to see more members, posting more regularly... Maybe you're the man to catalyse a change around here toward more constructive criticism, and maybe that in turn would make more people engage and stay here...?
But also maybe that would just turn this place into the same as every other forum, where the man with the loudest voice (figuratively speaking), only just over shadows all the other shouting fools wasting their breath on the internet, forgetting that for quite a few people out there, photography is just fun, is just a bit of t&a, is just an escape, a past time, and just something to enjoy for their own reasons; and then share with a few other like minded folks in a quiet unassuming corner of the internet.
Maybe not ... I guess time will tell ...
I must admit to having found many of your posts interesting and engaging. I don't post very often any more myself (and I made the place), and you have certainly inspired me to post something!
Watch the patronising tone though please, we longest standing members have 4 years of discussion behind us here. Much of what you say has been covered. And whilst I welcome covering any of it again, let's do it in a way that we can all enjoy it yeah? The last guy who started down the "Stroking the ego of a bad photographer, just makes a bad photographer" road eventually contacted me personally asking to be banned after finding he had little self control in picking at people but was terminally frustrated by other members here not giving a shit for his commentary. His name was Lee Webb, look him up if you like
In short, be critical if you like, open discussion on people's posts about their images ... I'd love to hear your thoughts on my photos ... But don't be a clever dick about it, it gets tedious really fucking quickly, and I haven't got the time or inclination to go through the time consuming and predictable process of dealing with people complaining about you etc etc ...
Hope you don't mind the forthright comment, you strike me as the sort that would respond positively to it?
Paul Lange
Moderator
@Tom Dinning
That's a strange thing to say, Paul. Surely tit and bums is hardly incidental as you suggest. Subject matter in ahotograph is key to understanding. Composition involves ensuring the subject matter of importance is predominant, or at least a key factor. Photographing a woman dresses or partly dressed and presenting the body in a particular manner is totally in the hands of the photographer. Irrespective of any relationship between photographer and model, the choice is there's and there's alone. Hazards such as this can be avoided but Chris has chosen not to. As someone who finds the photograph interesting in many ways, I am asking Chris why he has included the content in the manner. What is his intent? How would he see the photograph affecting people? Has the photo achieved what he set out to achieve.
Tom, I don't think it was a strange thing to say at all. I agree with your comments regarding subject matter, composition and predominancy, but I was not referring to these. I was suggesting what Chris's (an in fact most members) motives may be when posting photographs here on RPF. I very much doubt that anyone who has posted a nude or glamour photograph was thinking " I've just got to show the guys at RPF these cracking pair of jubberlies". No, it has been to show a progression and the result of some effort, or at least an effort to get to grips with a genre or a particular type of photography they have encountered.
We will all have out point of view on any image. It can be quite different from the photographers point of view. To be critical, one needs to remove personal preferences from their thoughts and consider the actions of the photographer and the final product: the image.
Maybe in some of your posts it was not intentional but it certainly seemed that you were letting your personal issues with nude and glamour photography be the driving force behind your objection. I do find that your posts tend to contain a set of shifting goalposts and it is not always really clear what it is your are really saying and expecting a response to.
Technical improvement is one thing and is certainly necessary but it is not the end result, it is a means to an end. The end is a visual stimulation as a result of viewing a photograph. That visual stimulation will have an impact on our thoughts and ideas. If the photographer is serious about improving they must consider this aspect of photography as well. If the only purpose in posting a photograph here is to determine who likes it and what camera was used then have a few jokes about tits and bums then it's no wonder there are only a few regular contributors.
This is a photography forum, not a final ultimate photograph only forum. Anything that records a clear progression and improvement, visual or otherwise, and banter attached or not is something that is surely valid and I am sure it has an effect on the way anyone who views it goes on to think about their photography, critical discussion or not. RPF is not a group of students who have signed up for an intensive academic course, we are just a group of people who seem to be able to appreciate each others photographs regardless of how casual or focused we may be on the theory and critical aspects of the images we create and share.
I like a laugh as much as the next bloke. I like a nice pair of tits on a good looking woman as well. I'm just trying to get past that. My mother said I'd go blind if I kept that sort of stuff up. I think she was right. My vision is fading somewhat.
My mother also said that if I couldn't say anything nice don't say anything at all. What a load of bullshit. Sorry mum. Stroking the ego of a lousy photographer just makes for a lousy photographer.
Like I said, RPF is not an academic course where members have to make a grade. There is a wide spectrum of abilities and experience in regards to our members. Most people are not looking to be taught in the teacher - student sense, most people here switch off the moment something looks as if things are going to get a bit technical. However that doesn't mean that critique is not wanted but it is a good idea to get to know people a little first and understand their reasons for participating on RPF.
That's a strange thing to say, Paul. Surely tit and bums is hardly incidental as you suggest. Subject matter in ahotograph is key to understanding. Composition involves ensuring the subject matter of importance is predominant, or at least a key factor. Photographing a woman dresses or partly dressed and presenting the body in a particular manner is totally in the hands of the photographer. Irrespective of any relationship between photographer and model, the choice is there's and there's alone. Hazards such as this can be avoided but Chris has chosen not to. As someone who finds the photograph interesting in many ways, I am asking Chris why he has included the content in the manner. What is his intent? How would he see the photograph affecting people? Has the photo achieved what he set out to achieve.
Tom, I don't think it was a strange thing to say at all. I agree with your comments regarding subject matter, composition and predominancy, but I was not referring to these. I was suggesting what Chris's (an in fact most members) motives may be when posting photographs here on RPF. I very much doubt that anyone who has posted a nude or glamour photograph was thinking " I've just got to show the guys at RPF these cracking pair of jubberlies". No, it has been to show a progression and the result of some effort, or at least an effort to get to grips with a genre or a particular type of photography they have encountered.
We will all have out point of view on any image. It can be quite different from the photographers point of view. To be critical, one needs to remove personal preferences from their thoughts and consider the actions of the photographer and the final product: the image.
Maybe in some of your posts it was not intentional but it certainly seemed that you were letting your personal issues with nude and glamour photography be the driving force behind your objection. I do find that your posts tend to contain a set of shifting goalposts and it is not always really clear what it is your are really saying and expecting a response to.
Technical improvement is one thing and is certainly necessary but it is not the end result, it is a means to an end. The end is a visual stimulation as a result of viewing a photograph. That visual stimulation will have an impact on our thoughts and ideas. If the photographer is serious about improving they must consider this aspect of photography as well. If the only purpose in posting a photograph here is to determine who likes it and what camera was used then have a few jokes about tits and bums then it's no wonder there are only a few regular contributors.
This is a photography forum, not a final ultimate photograph only forum. Anything that records a clear progression and improvement, visual or otherwise, and banter attached or not is something that is surely valid and I am sure it has an effect on the way anyone who views it goes on to think about their photography, critical discussion or not. RPF is not a group of students who have signed up for an intensive academic course, we are just a group of people who seem to be able to appreciate each others photographs regardless of how casual or focused we may be on the theory and critical aspects of the images we create and share.
I like a laugh as much as the next bloke. I like a nice pair of tits on a good looking woman as well. I'm just trying to get past that. My mother said I'd go blind if I kept that sort of stuff up. I think she was right. My vision is fading somewhat.
My mother also said that if I couldn't say anything nice don't say anything at all. What a load of bullshit. Sorry mum. Stroking the ego of a lousy photographer just makes for a lousy photographer.
Like I said, RPF is not an academic course where members have to make a grade. There is a wide spectrum of abilities and experience in regards to our members. Most people are not looking to be taught in the teacher - student sense, most people here switch off the moment something looks as if things are going to get a bit technical. However that doesn't mean that critique is not wanted but it is a good idea to get to know people a little first and understand their reasons for participating on RPF.
Tom Dinning
Well-Known Member
Hi Paul.
Thanks for that.
I did read the ethos before I came in here. It seemed clear enough. It mentioned things like teaching and learning, being polite, open minded and approaching the forum from any level. I thought I was doing that. It's true I don't necessarily have the same point of view as some here. It's true that I might look at photographs from a different perspective. It's true that I shift the goal posts often. It's also true that I invariably avoid stating my own opinions on matters of discussion but to take the position of testing the validity of the opinions of others. I might open a discussion simply to find out what others are thinking by contradicting my own thinking. Some might even call it lying. It probably is in a way. It's as a result of a lifetime of teaching. Sorry about that.
As for getting to know people, how long does that take? I don't know any of you or you me. It that can be overcome by reading and looking. Doesn't that apply both ways?
I'm happy to move on if that's what is needed to restore some peace here. I'm smart enough to know when I don't fit. Shame, though. I was enjoying the imagery, even the tits and bums. Especially the tits and bums!
There goes those bloody goal posts again!
Cheers
Tom
Thanks for that.
I did read the ethos before I came in here. It seemed clear enough. It mentioned things like teaching and learning, being polite, open minded and approaching the forum from any level. I thought I was doing that. It's true I don't necessarily have the same point of view as some here. It's true that I might look at photographs from a different perspective. It's true that I shift the goal posts often. It's also true that I invariably avoid stating my own opinions on matters of discussion but to take the position of testing the validity of the opinions of others. I might open a discussion simply to find out what others are thinking by contradicting my own thinking. Some might even call it lying. It probably is in a way. It's as a result of a lifetime of teaching. Sorry about that.
As for getting to know people, how long does that take? I don't know any of you or you me. It that can be overcome by reading and looking. Doesn't that apply both ways?
I'm happy to move on if that's what is needed to restore some peace here. I'm smart enough to know when I don't fit. Shame, though. I was enjoying the imagery, even the tits and bums. Especially the tits and bums!
There goes those bloody goal posts again!
Cheers
Tom
Rob MacKillop
Edinburgh Correspondent
I think your presence here has been positive, Tom. You've shaken the place up from its slumbers. I sometimes wonder if this forum is in it's last days, with just the same few contributors. It's good to be jolted out of our complacency by newcomers. We just have to get used to your voice and tactics, especially the goal shifting!
Hamish Gill
Tech Support (and Marketing)
It does apply both ways, but it's quite hard if you never state your opinion.
And if by doing that you are seeking to test other people's opinion, that sort of "getting to know each other" can only even be a one way street.
In a classroom that probably elevates you to a position of enigmatic teacher; the one with all the knowledge and power. Outside of a classroom it's much more likely to cause you to alienate yourself... Especially as the new guy!
And as Paul said, and I have eluded to, we are not a classroom, we are all interested in learning to one extent or another ... But whilst teaching people forcefully by being a clever dick might be a good approach in a school, it's not likely to go down well within a bunch like us.
If you read the ethos well enough, you will understand that we like to consider ourselves as all being equal. As if we all are capable - for reasons inside and outside of the realms of photography - of contributing something positive to this community. That was are all as much likely to be wrong as we are likely to be right and that dialogue should be approached with a sense of humility.
You don't need to move on... We have welcomed and accepted some much stranger creatures than you. Just try and think about this from the wider forums perspective.
You can either be perceived as the new, potentially very knowledgable guy who is likely to have something interesting to add to the community through his years of accrued photography based wisdom.
Or you can be the new billy-big-balls know-it-all.
One path will lead to you becoming part of the community, being accepted and engaged with positively.
The other will result in either you getting bored through feeling no one is reading anything you post, and you leaving. Or worst case scenario through me getting bored with dealing with the aforementioned backlash from your posts and closing the door behind you one day.
And the latter is by no means meant as a threat. Im just talking from experience. I very much prefer people staying around and enriching this community, especially those with such a degree of experience so specific to photography theory and philosophy
At the end of the day, it's your path... Walk it as you will.
And if by doing that you are seeking to test other people's opinion, that sort of "getting to know each other" can only even be a one way street.
In a classroom that probably elevates you to a position of enigmatic teacher; the one with all the knowledge and power. Outside of a classroom it's much more likely to cause you to alienate yourself... Especially as the new guy!
And as Paul said, and I have eluded to, we are not a classroom, we are all interested in learning to one extent or another ... But whilst teaching people forcefully by being a clever dick might be a good approach in a school, it's not likely to go down well within a bunch like us.
If you read the ethos well enough, you will understand that we like to consider ourselves as all being equal. As if we all are capable - for reasons inside and outside of the realms of photography - of contributing something positive to this community. That was are all as much likely to be wrong as we are likely to be right and that dialogue should be approached with a sense of humility.
You don't need to move on... We have welcomed and accepted some much stranger creatures than you. Just try and think about this from the wider forums perspective.
You can either be perceived as the new, potentially very knowledgable guy who is likely to have something interesting to add to the community through his years of accrued photography based wisdom.
Or you can be the new billy-big-balls know-it-all.
One path will lead to you becoming part of the community, being accepted and engaged with positively.
The other will result in either you getting bored through feeling no one is reading anything you post, and you leaving. Or worst case scenario through me getting bored with dealing with the aforementioned backlash from your posts and closing the door behind you one day.
And the latter is by no means meant as a threat. Im just talking from experience. I very much prefer people staying around and enriching this community, especially those with such a degree of experience so specific to photography theory and philosophy
At the end of the day, it's your path... Walk it as you will.
Tom Dinning
Well-Known Member
Humility or big balls. That's some choice. Since I have no need to defend my position, I'll let it go at that. You're the one with the forum. You hold the off switch. I was hoping for a decent discussion but all I seem to be getting is defensive responses. It's possible that anything new or controversial has rippled the waters more than some can paddle through.
You are right. My interests and expertise do lie in the area of theory and philosophy. I also take snapshots of the kids.
It just seems a bit weird if I discuss something a bit controversial or contrary I'm sent to Siberia but if I have a joke about a pair of tits I'm OK.
Development of new ideas is about discussion, argument, consideration, analysis, testing, hypothesizing, interpreting. I'm under the false impression that is what a forum does, in part. I apologies for my misunderstanding.
I'm off to find someone who will challenge me, not tell me to behave.
You are right. My interests and expertise do lie in the area of theory and philosophy. I also take snapshots of the kids.
It just seems a bit weird if I discuss something a bit controversial or contrary I'm sent to Siberia but if I have a joke about a pair of tits I'm OK.
Development of new ideas is about discussion, argument, consideration, analysis, testing, hypothesizing, interpreting. I'm under the false impression that is what a forum does, in part. I apologies for my misunderstanding.
I'm off to find someone who will challenge me, not tell me to behave.
Pete Askew
Admin
Personally I like discussion around images and have enjoyed quite a lot of what you write (and your blog). However, I would like to move on from the general theory to the specific and I suspect that would be more satisfying for you also (although not all will engage I'm sure) - I think that might be also what Hamish is suggesting.
I have some specific interests in image making. OK, I take pictures to 'show what I have seen' as well, but I am interested in two main things more specifically. One is evocation and the other is the perception of story. Now I know that evocation is an inherent component of many images and a great example here on the forum is a series that Rob created of his childhood hometown. These were used to try to transfer his memories to the audience but of course we cannot know if he was successful. It seemed so as it invoked some sort of feelings in me (as do many images) but was this about my history or his? I'm also (and more-so) interested in the story that an image shows or more specifically the way an image can be deliberately made to create false story. This is of course related to the evocation issue and falsity can be created there and the division between personal interpretation and what the photographer was intended can become very fuzzy.
As you can see from the above I am not a professional philosopher and I could probably have explained things better. Please have a look at this series and see what it does for you. Let's discuss some specifics.
This is the final reveal. I'll try to find the individual posts that led to it.
http://www.realphotographersforum.com/forum/threads/the-keeper-of-secrets.11188/
I have some specific interests in image making. OK, I take pictures to 'show what I have seen' as well, but I am interested in two main things more specifically. One is evocation and the other is the perception of story. Now I know that evocation is an inherent component of many images and a great example here on the forum is a series that Rob created of his childhood hometown. These were used to try to transfer his memories to the audience but of course we cannot know if he was successful. It seemed so as it invoked some sort of feelings in me (as do many images) but was this about my history or his? I'm also (and more-so) interested in the story that an image shows or more specifically the way an image can be deliberately made to create false story. This is of course related to the evocation issue and falsity can be created there and the division between personal interpretation and what the photographer was intended can become very fuzzy.
As you can see from the above I am not a professional philosopher and I could probably have explained things better. Please have a look at this series and see what it does for you. Let's discuss some specifics.
This is the final reveal. I'll try to find the individual posts that led to it.
http://www.realphotographersforum.com/forum/threads/the-keeper-of-secrets.11188/
