cheers can see what you mean now from that link. I was expecting the second pair be lower than the first so therefore visible, no longer confused lol, O and as for horseflies I know them little gits only to well you can guarantee if there are any horseflies in a field they will get me!! I have lost count the times I have been bitten they leave my other half alone and target me,I am sure I have the word Cafe tattooed on my forehead lol