Kodak Cartridge Hawk-Eye Model C

Brian Moore

Moderator
The Cartridge Hawk-Eye Model C is vintage 1926-32. I've posted a few black and white shots from it before but I thought it would be nice to see how color comes out. I used Kodak Ektar 100 film, which is slow by today's standards but far faster than films available in the 20's.

The camera has a fixed aperture of f11 (so I have read) and I am guessing its shutter speed is about 1/40 or 1/50.

I took the first shot below last Thursday at Heritage Park in Santa Fe Springs, California. (I had gone out there to pick up some film from Freestyle photo, which is a great place for film photography supplies.) That's my younger daughter Meg and of course Sadie there next to the greenhouse. It was overcast, and you can see that the image is a little dull in comparison with the second shot below, which shows a few of the lads I play fitba with and which I took in bright sunshine a few days earlier.

Lesson learned: Shoot this camera in bright sunshine. (Which I knew anyway.)

Given that the film speeds in the 20's were very slow--15 ASA?--bright sunshine would have been essential I think, whereas today with faster films I can get away with shots in some dullness.

Note: There appears to be dust on these images. Some from this roll are worse than others. I think it was done in processing, which I had done by someone else.

Ektar100-1007.jpg



Ektar100-1003.jpg
 
It's doing rather well for it's age Brian - but how the heck did they manage with 15 ASA????

So basically it's a one shutter speed, one aperture camera - or did it have 'bulb' for your own timed efforts?
 
Thanks Chris. No bulb mode. Not on this camera anyway. You trip the shutter. That's the only action you can take apart from framing your subject. In the 20s they didn't have a rating system for film emulsion speed. (I think ASA/ISO and the Soviet equivalent didn't come about until the 40s or 50s.) But certainly the film was slow. Pete and I had a brief back and forth about this and Pete's opinion was that the film of the time was even slower than 15. I think he estimated an equivalent of about 8 ASA, which may be right.

The other thing I forgot to mention is that whereas most box cameras have two viewfinders, one for horizontal and the other for vertical-oriented images (unless they produce square images, in which case only one is needed) the Cartridge Hawk-Eye C has just one viewfinder, and that for vertical shots. This despite the fact that it produces 6x9 cm negatives. Perhaps it was a Kodak cost-down measure.
 
Looking at the film speed dial on my old View-Master stereo camera, the ASA goes down to 5!

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And this was the 50s I think

Maybe the sun was brighter back then :D
 
The problem with those dunderheads at Kodak was they tried to push new technology and did so poorly, whilst simultaneously undermining their bread and butter product.

5 ASA! Oh dear. That is super-slow ain't it? I was thinking to get as slow a film as I could for the Cartridge Hawk-Eye C (I think Adox makes a 20 ASA, although I'm not sure its available in 120) to try to emulate what a shooter in the 20's might experience.
 
mmm, just found this interesting tidbit online - wonder if it's true?

The original ASA numbers were pretty much all within 1/3 stop of the Weston numbers. The early ASA numbers were revised in the 1960's to aproximately double (Plus-X 80 to 160, later revised to 125, Panatomic-X 25 to 40, Tri-X 200 to 400) although for years photo magazines and books said that we could ignore the "safety factor" and get better negatives. Double-X is still marketed as a pro movie film at ISO (ASA) 250.
 
Here we go - this was printed in PhotoGuide magazine in 1960..

THE JUMP IN FILM SPEEDS
Film speeds have a habit of changing when no one is looking. Here are the facts behind the recent ASA speed changes.
By ANDREW MATHESON, London

OUT of the blue, American film makers have doubled recommended emulsion speeds. What made them do it-and why didn't they do it before?

Speed is one of the most important film characteristics. Measuring it remained the biggest headache in the film industry for nearly half a century. Not because of a lack of methods, but through too many of them. It took nearly fifty years before someone hit on the idea of relating film speed to final print quality. One reason why it took so long was perhaps that it was a cumbersome way, outside and in the laboratory. But it brought order into a chaotic state of affairs. That was the beginning of the ASA (American Standard) exposure index numbers-and later the BS (British Standard) system.
For nearly thirteen years it worked like a charm. Photographers had a figure that they could set on exposure meters and use in exposure tables, and obtain correctly exposed negatives.
Last year the American Standards Association burst into this seemingly peaceful state of affairs. A new standard, made official a few months ago, in effect doubled all previous film speed ratings. At once we are at sixes and sevens again - or more precisely at sixes and dozens. What has happened?

MAXIMUM FILM SPEED
The ASA speed system worked like a charm - or nearly. In fact, some curious rumblings started up behind the scenes almost as soon as it appeared.
The first was the cult of maximum film speed. Some ten years ago clever photographers tried cooking a film in the developer for ten hours instead of ten minutes. They discovered that they got- in addition to a lot of fog- increased effective film speeds.

TEN TIMES INCREASE?
The actual speed gain was the source of many bitter arguments in clubs and photo journals, but seemed to range from a five to ten fold increase. Usually the eager darkroom beaver claimed that he took a film rated at 50 ASA, set his meter to 500 ASA, and exposed accordingly. After an overnight developing session, he proudly waved a strip of printable negatives. There was no cheating, but how did he do it?
Some of the speed gain was genuine - but not all tenfold of it. Finality development boosted the speed 2 to 2½ times (even if it ruined the negatives in every other respect).
Certain subjects could stand reduced exposures by having restricted tones, giving another doubling of effective speed. And finally, ASA film speed indexes (pre-1960) are designed to yield 2½ times over-exposed negatives as a safety factor against under-exposure. So 2½ x 2 x 2½ = 12½. Yes, maximum film speed claims were genuine - but misleading.

MINIMUM CORRECT EXPOSURE
It is this last factor, the latitude or safety factor against under-exposure, which has now got shot down. Actually, it had been under fire for some while.
From time immemorial the average photographer's bogeyman used to be under-exposure. As new concepts of image quality such as acutance came on the scene, together with new types of ultra-speed films, it became apparent that over-exposure was just as bad. With the fastest films, it seems quite senseless to over-expose pictures by a safety factor if you wanted to make the most of the enhanced film speed. And such films, more than any others, appreciably suffered in quality even on comparatively slight over-exposure.
Film manufacturers and users soon found that they got noticeably better results by using an appreciably higher film speed figure on their exposure meters. Films began to have two speeds: the official one and a second figure for "minimum correct exposure". Some manufacturers went so far as to quote two sets of figures for every emulsion on these lines. And plenty of photographers found that by using the higher of the figures they got as good - if not better - negatives.

DOUBLE FOR BLACK-AND-WHITE
To deal with this new confusion, the ASA speed system has been revised. Under the new system, emulsion speeds of black-and-white negative films become double what they were before. That simple process virtually eliminates the previous safety factor or margin against under-exposure. The confusion has not yet departed; for some manufacturers immediately doubled their official film speeds, others still keep quoting old ASA values. And it is a little difficult to make up your mind just where you are if you don't know who has done what, and whether a published ASA figure is an old speed index or a new one. In addition, the British Standard (BS) speeds are still unchanged for the moment, though probably they will eventually fall in line with the new ASA range.
The speed revision also cleared up a few outstanding points. One was to simplify the laboratory side of testing film speeds, and to bring it into line with another widely used system, the DIN speed criterion. When originally introduced nearly thirty years ago, the latter was itself a little unrealistic, for it measured speed under laboratory conditions of development which no amateur would ever use. The DIN standard was revised in 1958 to remove this difficulty. The new ASA testing method is very similar to the new DIN procedure; only the figures are different. On the other hand, DIN film speeds still are not minimum-correct-exposure speeds: the two-fold safety factor remains.

HOW IT AFFECTS YOUR METER
The somewhat complicated situation then boils down to this. To determine correct exposures, especially with exposure meters - whether separate, built into the camera, coupled with aperture speed controls, or completely automatic - we need a film speed setting. Most modern exposure meters are calibrated in ASA and in DIN figures.
With a film rated in ASA, we have to find out first whether it is the old or the new ASA figure. If it is the old one, set the exposure meter to double that speed. If it is the new one, use it as it stands. If the film carries a DIN speed rating, set the exposure meter to double the given figure.

NO JUMP IN COLOUR
All this applies exclusively to black-and-white negative materials. It does not apply to colour films, because no colour film rating system - with or without safety factors - yet exists. Colour film speed is not an entity measured in the laboratory; it is a manufacturer's recommendation. By rating a film at, say, 32 ASA, the maker merely tells us that if we set our exposure meter to 32 ASA for that colour film, we shall get correctly exposed pictures. Colour film has very little latitude anyway; exposures must be correct and neither over nor under. So for colour shots the recommended exposure meter settings remain what they were before.
One practical effect is that black-and-white films suddenly appear to be very much faster again than colour films. In reality, neither type of film has changed at all.

UNIT VALUES
ASA figures are known as "arithmetic". That means that the speed figure or exposure index is directly proportional to the actual speed. A film of 200 ASA is twice as fast, and needs half as much exposure, as a film of 100 ASA.
 
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