Critique Welcomed Street - A Few More.

[alfie Wright]

A few more street shots from around Nottingham. They're probably lacking a little in direction, so looking for a bit of constructive input.


19th Hole. by alfie2902, on Flickr



A Little To Much. by alfie2902, on Flickr



Young Love. by alfie2902, on Flickr



Cake Girl. by alfie2902, on Flickr



Starbucks. by alfie2902, on Flickr

 

[Lesley Jones]

You know something Alfie? I have the odd day trip to London with my camera, but I have never taken it with me to our local town. Seeing these has made me want to do just that. They are all great, but the last one is my favourite

If I were to offer anything at all, it is that they may be a little flat tonally. I'm not sure what to suggest though - I can't look at an image and think this area needs more contrast, or that area needs to be lighter. I get an image I am happy with using CS5 and Color Efex before converting with Silver Efex. Unfortunately none of them are cheap. I do like the way you can see the full effect of your control points in Silver Efex though, so you can keep tweaking them until they work perfectly together. Do you refer to your histograms while you are working? I'm viewing from the rubbish work monitor, but I wouldn't mind betting yours are ending a good way short of the right hand side. Not suggesting all images should touch both sides, but it's not a bad guide for starters. I do love the images though!

 

[alfie Wright]

Thank-you for the feedback, Lesley.

I would agree that tonally they're a little flat. I've been trying in LR2 to get more depth to the darker tones & after a few chats in different threads I think LR4 would give me an hand with my PP. LR4 just seems to work far better with the blacks & shadows. I do use the histogram, Lesley & most of my images stretch to both sides. I think Hamish hit the nail on the head with my images & my use of vignettes duming done the light tones. I'm going to try not to use them for a while & see if I can get an improvement. Silver Efex does look very good & I quite fancy a play with it in the future.

I think street can be shot anywhere, that's part of it's appeal to me. I think I'm a frustrated Landscapist that lives in the city. LOL. Street I can do anytime, even on my way to & from work. Alot of other stuff takes a bit more planning. Anyway, give it ago locally, if all the animals will give you an hour off.

 

[Chris Dodkin]

The fuzz and the drunk is a great capture - the lion looks very disapproving

Young love is great - very intrusive, yet they have no idea we're there!

But Starbucks is just a classic street shot - people behind glass, so you can grab the shot of them looking out - nice!

 

[Hamish Gill]

There is definite progress (for want of a less patronising word ) in the pp!
Flatness works where flatness suits ... There is still quite a flat feeling to the mid tones in the last one but because is is sat against a dark background it works!
And on the subject of that shot it is the clear winner for me too
Once you get in to the image you can actually see what the chat is looking at in the reflection which sits slightly above his head ... It couldn't have worked out better I don't think!
I also like the lion and police shot ... Just try it without the vignette at all
Maybe up te blacks and exposure and drop the contrast a bit ... That should still give a flat image but maybe a slightly stronger one
Don't forget the curves control too
Just as an experiment take a look at the three little sliding buttons below it leave the one in the middle the slide the other two as far as possible outwards. Then push highlight to max and shadows to min ... It will likely clip the darkest and lightest areas very slightly. Then slide the sliders back toward the centre and watch as less light bits become more light and less darks become more dark.
It's a very extreme way to get to grips with an "s shaped curve" ... But I think once you see what it does you will find a way even in lr2 to get less flat results!

 

[Dave Green]

I like them! Mono works great for most of them but shot 1 is just screaming for colour!

 

[Lesley Jones]

Work monitor must be more rubbish than I thought. The tones are much better from home. I do agree about the vignette though. I use them a lot, but nobody has noticed (or at least commented)

 

[Hamish Gill]

its all about subtlety with vignette... unless the look requires it to not be subtle ... in this case i think it needs to be subtle
I know this isnt to everones taste... but this was an ocation I wanted a heavy and obvious vignette ... for me it was about helping to close in on the subject a bit where the background was so imposing ... it also suited the "castle" feel ... for me at least ... well, and the client ... and the mag they are being published in next month (<--smug grin )

 

[alfie Wright]

Thanks all for the positive remarks on the images & thanks too for the help & advice to help me make them a little better.

I will leave off from using the vignettes so much, & when I do I'll try for a little more subtlety. I've had a little play around with the tone curve bottom axis buttons/sliders & think I've got a better idea of using them now. Thanks Hamish.

Dave, I'll process a coloured version of 1 & post it here.

Next question...I snapped an image of the inside of a barbers shop yesterday, while moving, looking for an interesting angle I got a good reflection of the pub opposite. On checking the image the reflection is stronger than the intended image. Any suggestions how PP this? or do I have what I have.

 

[Lesley Jones]

It depends on what you want to emphasise. If I wanted to tone down the reflections I would add control points in Silver Efex to make them melt into the background. I would imagine they need to be darker (with the outside being lit by sun I presume) and I would take down the contrast and maybe do negative tonal contrast (detail). Then I would do the reverse with the inside of the shop. Maybe adding points to boost the whites and add detail. After conversion, I sometimes play with light further by going back into Color Efex and using the reflectors filter - that literally adds light where you want it and you can add negative points to hold back where you want to keep the shadows. I'm sorry I've given examples using software that you don't use, but I imagine you can do something similar with LR. Failing that, just do a duplicate layer, reduce the brightness and contrast and paint it over the areas you want to tone down using different brush sizes and strengths. I still use that method a fair bit

Edited to say if that last method doesn't make sense, I can explain in more detail. It's really not difficult

 

[Hamish Gill]

Without seeing the image it's hard to say...
Is the reflection in focus?

You remember the local adjustments I did on that previous image?
You could do a sort of opposite of that... (you know I can't even remember if lr2 has local adjustments??)
But yeah, lower te contrast in the area you want less attention drawn to ... You may also have to then adjust exposure of that area to balance it with the rest ofthe shot...
If the reflection is out of focus you can make it more so by lowering clarity a touch and dropping the sharpness

 

[alfie Wright]

Thanks Lesley & Hamish.

Having a closer look this morning I'm not sure what I want to do with it, if anything.

Lesley, the more you post about Silver FX the more I want to have a play with it. LR seems to be about simpler adjustments & corrections & doesn't offer layers. It's a great tool, but if you really want to go to town on an image I think perhaps PS or SilverFX is needed.

Hamish, The reflection I think is probably better in focus than the barber & his client. I guess autofocus used the window & not the intended subjects. I wich I'd chimped it at the time & had another go now. I quite like the image as is this morning though, so may just leave it as it is.


Reflecting At The Barbershop... by alfie2902, on Flickr

 

[Ronald Atchley]

Alfie,
Really like your Starbucks shot. You've got the eye
Coming from another tyro this may not carry much weight
but, if and when you can, I think you should look into
Silver Efex Pro and Color Efex Pro . I also thought I could do
everything I needed to with Elements UNTIL I broke down and
got CS5. I'm still trying to learn these programs but honestly
don't know what I would do without them. Also, take Zooey
up on her offer to explain in detail the process she was talking
about. There's only a handfull of people I know that can process
as well as she can. Between her and Hamish, you're set. I go to
school everytime I look at and read their post
Ron

 

[adam hoskins]

2,3 and last for me could crop number three just to add to it more. Others to me seem a bit lost with no direction, also a bt to cluttered. Apart from this good shots I think just a bit more thought in the others and they could of been winners

 

[Hamish Gill]

I quite like the reflection shot ... It's a little confusing to look at, but that's what makes it work I think!
As for silver and colour efex ... I'm tempted to play devils advocate here and suggest gaining a greater working knowledge of LR before moving on to other software.
You could have a go with the trial versions and see if you get on any better with them as a whole but if you are going to do that I recomend doing the same with LR4
I've played with silver efex and obviously photoshop, but I don't find there is much that I can't do (for my style) in LR4

Basically I'm suggesting that you don't make things to complicated for your self by trying to learn to many platforms at this relatively early stage in your getting to grips with post process

 

[Lesley Jones]

Alfie,

I still love the Starbucks photograph best, but like Pete, I too am fascinated by the lovely jumble of reflections. The one above is very good. The pub is a good, strong subject, with nice contrast and you have the added bonus of that nice stone at the top. By comparison, the barber is a tad weaker (that's not necessarily a problem - I don't think you want them competing). My personal preference with a more ghostly barber would be to have him framed within his shop front if that was possible.

This has so many more possibilities. If you went back with different light, then focus on the barber and choose an angle where the reflections aren't as powerful. On another bright day, perhaps turn the camera the other way and maybe frame the ghost like figures within the shop front. Actually, it's a great idea for a subject as both barber and customer are in full view, but engrossed in the hair cut

 

[alfie Wright]

Thanks Ron, Adam, Hamish & Lesley for all the input & advice.

My financial position atm means that there'll be no new software for a while, but, as Hamish says it will probably benefit me at this point to really explore Lightroom further. Tbh at the moment I'm probably more interested in improving my images straight out of the camera. Working on comp & getting a better understanding of working with the available light will probably benefit me more at this point anyway!

I really quite like the reflection image above, now, I was a little disappointed that it had not worked as intended at first. I wanted a strong reflection but with the barber & his client to be the main subjects of the shot, but with almost a 2nd image/exposure over the top in the reflection. I think there will be lots more chances to try & make this work in the future & I seem to learn more by getting it not quite right sometimes.

Thanks again for the help!