thinking of switching to canon ...

Hamish Gill

Hamish Gill

Tech Support (and Marketing)
.... HAHA ... only joking ... as if ;)

seriously though ...

I really want a TS-E (Damn you Bradley)

main reasoning ... Increased DOF for product photography

Alistair is going to show me image stacking, but i feel this may slow down my workflow to much ... im willing to be shown otherwise, but in the meanwhile im contemplating my options ...

considering my list of kit i want/need this has got to be pretty low on my priority list ... but its something i want to consider for the future ...
It also opens up the possibility of useing the vast quanity of other canon stuff out there ... which cant be a bad thing!

so, i was thinking a 5d might not be a bad idea ... but then thought maybe start with a lesser model ...

reason being ... i dont need a wide angle lens for product stuff, but i would prefer a wider lens for playing with ... so ...

start with aps-c camera and 24mm tse giving me an effective focal length i can work with for product stuff ... play with the lens a bit, then if i feel i want something wider get a 5d ...

im dreaming here a bit guys ... i cant afford this at the mo, but feel free to indulge me with your thoughts

whats the difference between the older tse lenses and the new ones?

...

id just buy a hartblei super rotator ... but it seems they are impossible to come by ... and this message
Super-Rotator lenses are out of stock...
(please, don't ask about availability - if item is available, it's mentioned in the price list)
Click to expand...
isnt exactly inviting
 
Ah ha - slippery slope, knew you'd see the light, etc etc :) :)

Just food for thought - don't you get less DOF with the crop sensor and the same focal length lens?

Can't comment on the TSE models - but agree that it's all Bradley's fault!
 
heh... just expanding my horizons my good man ... couldnt cope with those plasticy bodys and confuddling controls full time ;)

a 24mm lens is always a 24mm lens so although id have an effective focal length of 40mm ish, i would have the dof of a 24mm lens ... which would i guess be useful for what i want it for...

i think thats right anyway ... my brain does a whoopsie when i try and think about that too hard!
 
Mmmm, looks like we're both right...

I looked it up and found the following explanation:

• For an equivalent field of view, a Canon APS-C crop sensor camera has at least 1.6x MORE depth of field that a 35mm full frame camera would have - when the focus distance is significantly less then the hyperfocal distance (but the 35mm format needs a lens with 1.6x the focal length to give the same view).

• Using the same lens on a Canon APS-C crop sensor camera and a 35mm full frame body, the a Canon APS-C crop sensor camera image has 1.6x LESS depth of field than the 35mm image would have (but they would be different images of course since the field of view would be different)

• If you use the same lens on a Canon APS-C crop sensor camera and a 35mm full frame body and crop the full frame 35mm image to give the same view as the APS-C crop image, the depth of field is IDENTICAL

• If you use the same lens on a Canon APS-C crop sensor camera and a 35mm full frame body, then shoot from different distances so that the view is the same, the Canon APS-C crop sensor camera image will have 1.6x MORE DOF then the full frame image.

• Close to the hyperfocal distance, the Canon APS-C crop sensor camera has a much more than 1.6x the DOF of a 35mm full frame camera. The hyperfocal distance of a Canon APS-C crop sensor camera is 1.6x less than that of a 35mm full frame camera when used with a lens giving the same field of view.
 
Good find Chris.

As I'm sure you know Hamish, the big advantage of the Canon TS (and Hartblei) is the independent rotation of shift and tilt axes. The relationship on the Nikon(s) is fixed. Not sure why they didn't just sort out the internal wiring and make them so but I guess they had a reason. Nikon service will set them at 90º to each other but that is a permanent change and doesn't address the issue. Having said that, I have a set of the PC-E Nikkor I use for technical work and this has never been an issue. If I want full T/S flexibility I would not use a DSLR and would use a technical camera with a digital back on (and gain vastly more focus range etc). I know that is not possible for your work. For some stuff you might even be able to use a Lensbaby tilt adapter and just use the middle of the image (standard lenses have a limited image circle). It would be a very cheap way of gaining tilt and, on a D3, what you lose would be no more than with an APS sensor. Might be worth a try.
 
its an idea Pete, but to be honest, i want to do it properly and i fell the lens baby option just doesnt cut the mustard ...
why oh why cant hartblei be more forthcoming
 
Ooo ... That's a little more interesting ...
Looks expensive?
Would certainly solve my studio issues! Looks as though it would be a lot of fun getting to grips with it all too!
 
35mm will be 50mm on a crop sensor and 35mm on full frame

So on a crop sensor it will have the effective focal length of 50mm but the dof of a 35mm
This is because focal length is a constant but the effect of focal length differs depending on the size of the light sensitive surface
 
35mm will be 50mm on a 1.5x crop sensor and 35mm on "full frame"

So on a crop sensor it will have the effective focal length of 50mm but the dof of a 35mm
This is because focal length is a constant but the effect of focal length differs depending on the size of the light sensitive surface
 
Last edited:
Yep get it, thats what I meant....... I cut and pasted part of the sentance in previous post and meant to say........if you use a 35mm lens on a crop sensor which is equiv to 50mm and a 50mm lens on a full frame sensor..... Whoops
 
Sorry I'm late to the party, guys, but it's fun being the seed of so much controversy! Anyhoo, as Pete mentioned, Nikon PC (TS) lenses are fixed, so no rotation on the tilt and shift axes unless you send the lens off to Nikon to get changed - again permanently. For product photography, you're going to be more interested in the shift function, of course, and will probably want the ability to rotate it at will.

You asked the difference between the older and newer Canon TS lenses. Well, the older ones are just like the Nikon lenses, with the fixed axes. But the newer versions can rotate at will, which is a huge advantage. Why hasn't Nikon changed? I suspect it's a question of economy of scale. Canon is a much bigger company than Nikon and sells more cameras (Canon does about $8B/year in DSLR sales to Nikon's $2B), and therefore can afford to offer and continually update a much broader range of lenses. For the TS/PC lenses, Canon also offers one more than Nikon (the 17mm). Also, the older Canon lenses are probably about equivalent to the Nikon lenses, IQ-wise. I've never used the Nikon variety, but I've read that many times. But I think Canon's newer lenses best the Nikon versions. I base that statement on the fact that I've used both the old and new Canon TS-E 24mm quite a bit, and the newer version is much sharper.
 
Hmm... So one way or another it's looking at costing me a hell of a lot of cash if I can't get away with one of the older modle lenses ...
Maybe see what nikon get up to in this area ...

I have to say though, having looked into this a little bit, having seen what 5d's now go for ... It's tempting ...
Purly so I could have a more valid objective stance ...
I just like buying cameras ;)
Should anyone decide to sell a 5d, let me know...
 
Good summary Darren. Just to clarify though, you can rotate the axis on the Nikon T/S lenses it's just that you cannot rotate them independently of each other. For technical work and probably also for product shots this is not such a big issue but I think it a missed opportunity on behalf of Nikon. The optics are all new and the image quality is certainly very good and capable of very exacting work and the 45mm and 85mm are superb lenses. I also have the 24mm but do not use it a lot for what I do. I can imagine a 17mm would be useful for architectural work though (although a 55mm Apo Rodagon on a 5X4 does quite nice job too!!).
 
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