Beth Carter
Well-Known Member
yes, it stops working.
Adobe software
- Thread starter Dave Moss
- Start date
yes, it stops working.
Chris Dodkin
West Coast Correspondent
Ouch!
Stephen McCullough
Well-Known Member
Mmmmmmm
Single App for CS3 and later
US $9.99/mo
Save up to 50% on your first year
Same features as Single App plan
Requires any CS3, CS4, CS5, CS5.5 or CS6 product
Promotional pricing for the first year - see terms
So after 1 year it's likely to double in price
I'm split on this one - I hate the sub model because now I have to pay forever, and what happens if I stop paying - does the software stop working?
Or do I simply stop getting updates????
Chris,
Both - no updates and the software stops working.
Interestingly, I read an interview with Adobe execs who said that for LR they are likely to continue a stand alone deal, but that the version that is included with Creative Cloud would likely see more features.
It all seems a bit messy.
Interview: Photoshop CC: Adobe responds to reaction: Digital Photography Review
Pete Askew
Admin
Recently purchased Adobe software is pre-authorised for Creative Cloud it seems so you can subscribe for the first year for free. But, your perpetual license will then be revoked (not sure when). This came from 'Das' at Adobe when I was trying to find out if there were concessions and whether my perpetual licenses would still be OK. After going round in circles for 2 hours in the chat, it seems that my versions were bought too long ago to give me automatic upgrade but asa a result will continue to work. I have to assume, give his inability to answer my simple question, that I can only have one Creative Cloud subscription on my Adobe ID. He repeated the fact that I could have 4 installations of PS by taking Creative Cloud complete and using one of my PS subscriptions. He seemed unable to grasp that if I did that then the PS would become out of sync (in terms of features etc) with the PS in the Master Collection. And the fact that the reason we have 3 addition licenses for PS is because some could be used concurrently. I get the impression the model is based on a person having their own copy of PS / Master Collection that they alone use with it installed on a desktop machine at the office and another on a laptop an the environment etc is coordinated in 'The Cloud' together with other colleagues, clients etc. Our setup doesn't fit with that at all.
Chris Dodkin
West Coast Correspondent
Mmmmm, I'm going to hold tight for now and see how this shakes out I think
Stephen McCullough
Well-Known Member
Me too.
It strikes me that Pete's conclusion (it doesn't fit with our setup at all) is going to be a common refrain. So we'll likely see some combination of Adobe adjusting and users adjusting.
Sigh.
Brian Moore
Moderator
This is starting to remind me of the Netflix debacle of a couple of years ago. Netflix is a subscription service for movies and television. Perhaps most if not all of the US/Canada based RPFrs will be familiar. Netflix had a very successful tiered subscription service. As I recall, for under $10 per month you got to have one DVD checked out at a time--with no time limit on how long you kept it--plus access to their online content. The next tier was about $15 per month and you got 1-3 DVDs at a time (or some quantity of multiples) plus online content. Then their was another tier that gave some other quantity of DVDs at a time plus online content. DVDs were delivered by mail and they came fast. It was all very easy and to many consumers, myself included, a good deal. Then one day Netflix changed their pricing structure and you no longer got to have DVDs plus online, but had to choose one or the other or both at higher prices. They lost a lot of customers very quickly. Within a few months their CEO was making apologies. They changed their pricing again, but it never did return to the good deal that it had been. And I think they have not gained back a lot of the customers they lost.
Because it's the big elephant in the room, Adobe seems to be throwing its weight around with this love-it-or-leave-it cloud based pricing structure. I don't love it, so I'll use my CS5 as is, and eventually leave it for something else.
Because it's the big elephant in the room, Adobe seems to be throwing its weight around with this love-it-or-leave-it cloud based pricing structure. I don't love it, so I'll use my CS5 as is, and eventually leave it for something else.
Chris Dodkin
West Coast Correspondent
I do wonder if they will be challenged legally on this - I suspect someone will be looking to see if this is possible.
Of course it may work out to be cheaper than giving them a king's ransom every few years for the next physical upgrade - so I may be getting my knickers in a twist about nothing - quite possible!
I just hate the idea of never owning something once I've paid for it - MS tried it with their music player/store and it was a dismal failure.
I am sure that Adobe have figured out that it will capture more revenue, and more consistent revenue for them - probably do away with many pirated copies as well. So they will be better off and that's good for the long term future of the company.
But when Apple are selling Aperture for $79.99 from the App store - paying $20 a month for Photoshop seems a little crazy!
Of course it may work out to be cheaper than giving them a king's ransom every few years for the next physical upgrade - so I may be getting my knickers in a twist about nothing - quite possible!
I just hate the idea of never owning something once I've paid for it - MS tried it with their music player/store and it was a dismal failure.
I am sure that Adobe have figured out that it will capture more revenue, and more consistent revenue for them - probably do away with many pirated copies as well. So they will be better off and that's good for the long term future of the company.
But when Apple are selling Aperture for $79.99 from the App store - paying $20 a month for Photoshop seems a little crazy!
Allan Batchelor
Well-Known Member
Time to start playing about with other software i think...dont see me paying the 20 quid a month for using there software
Beth Carter
Well-Known Member
or just stick with the adobe products you already own.
i want to know if the "free" cc version of lightroom is included in the $20/month one app subscription? yes, i know lr is still going to be offered as a standalone product, but they said it would be available at no extra charge for cc subscribers.
Chris Dodkin
West Coast Correspondent
The issue may come when new camera RAW support needs adding, and your legacy software won't recognize it - that'll force the upgrade issue
Lesley Jones
Otherwise know as Zooey
I have the answer to that one Chris - don't change your camera!
Pete Askew
Admin
That's just crazy talk Lesley! 
Larry Bolch
Well-Known Member
I wish subscription had been available years ago. With my 3D work, I got the Extended version, which costs $900US (round numbers throughout...). Upgrades have been at roughly 18 month intervals and cost $400. CC has all the extended version's features. Instead of having to come up with a full $900 and another $400 in a year and a half, at $20 per month, it would have only been $360 for that 18 months, with no big up-front cost. Instead of $400, it would have been $360 for the next 18 month period.
Now with CS7 cancelled—which I would have bought—I get the first year at $10 per month, or $120. Assuming that $20 per month will be the ongoing charge, I am well ahead by subscribing now. In 18 months, I will not be looking at splashing out another $400, just the ongoing $20 a month. Nor will I have to wait until the new version ships to get the latest features. They are added as they are developed. There will never be a CC2, CC3, etc. Just a CC that will continuously evolve.
We do not actually "own" the software we "buy". Read the EULA that appears whenever software is installed. We license it, putting substantial faith in the company that publishes it when we click "Yes" to the agreement. Subscription means a small savings over time, but better, no big lump sum payments every year and a half.
Realize that the subscription also comes with 20GB of cloud storage. I recently sold some old images to the State of Nevada, and delivered them as TIFFs via email, one image at a time. With 20GB available, the whole lot could have been delivered with ease. It would also be useful when traveling. While portable hard drives are fairly robust, they are mechanical devices. I offload my images to both the internal drive and a portable drive. A car accident could easily wipe out both. In the future, I will also do a backup to the cloud. Assuming that I get home with data intact, I can delete the cloud images prior to the next trip—or not. In any case it adds a feature that could become very useful any time secure short-term storage is required.
Now with CS7 cancelled—which I would have bought—I get the first year at $10 per month, or $120. Assuming that $20 per month will be the ongoing charge, I am well ahead by subscribing now. In 18 months, I will not be looking at splashing out another $400, just the ongoing $20 a month. Nor will I have to wait until the new version ships to get the latest features. They are added as they are developed. There will never be a CC2, CC3, etc. Just a CC that will continuously evolve.
We do not actually "own" the software we "buy". Read the EULA that appears whenever software is installed. We license it, putting substantial faith in the company that publishes it when we click "Yes" to the agreement. Subscription means a small savings over time, but better, no big lump sum payments every year and a half.
Realize that the subscription also comes with 20GB of cloud storage. I recently sold some old images to the State of Nevada, and delivered them as TIFFs via email, one image at a time. With 20GB available, the whole lot could have been delivered with ease. It would also be useful when traveling. While portable hard drives are fairly robust, they are mechanical devices. I offload my images to both the internal drive and a portable drive. A car accident could easily wipe out both. In the future, I will also do a backup to the cloud. Assuming that I get home with data intact, I can delete the cloud images prior to the next trip—or not. In any case it adds a feature that could become very useful any time secure short-term storage is required.
Stephen McCullough
Well-Known Member
Larry
Your example is one where it can make considerable sense. In all likelihood updates will be more frequent too - in smaller chunks that are easier to develop, and easier for the user to digest. I'd say that if you use two or more of the core applications, then it starts to make some sense.
The challenge hits for those who use, say, LR and some PS, and it's mostly a hobby. It's not a small market by any means.
I suspect that Adobe will be happy to see more photographers take a deeper look at LR, particularly LR 5, and see that many are likely using PS when they don't need to.
I suspect they will have to alter education pricing though. It's certainly true that there is a lot of piracy at that end. I'd bet though that it doesn't hurt Adobe much, and means that kids are hooked into Adobe when they leave school and become pro, at which time most purchase the software. Charging the kids will have two I flue cues I think. First, the kids will look at alternatives. Second, when they leave school Adobe will be less of an automatic choice. As more and more people work as freelancers, end users don't care what software they use - they only care about delivered quality and file format.
This move by Adobe strikes me as inevitable. They will alter it over time, but they had to start somewhere.
Fun times.
Your example is one where it can make considerable sense. In all likelihood updates will be more frequent too - in smaller chunks that are easier to develop, and easier for the user to digest. I'd say that if you use two or more of the core applications, then it starts to make some sense.
The challenge hits for those who use, say, LR and some PS, and it's mostly a hobby. It's not a small market by any means.
I suspect that Adobe will be happy to see more photographers take a deeper look at LR, particularly LR 5, and see that many are likely using PS when they don't need to.
I suspect they will have to alter education pricing though. It's certainly true that there is a lot of piracy at that end. I'd bet though that it doesn't hurt Adobe much, and means that kids are hooked into Adobe when they leave school and become pro, at which time most purchase the software. Charging the kids will have two I flue cues I think. First, the kids will look at alternatives. Second, when they leave school Adobe will be less of an automatic choice. As more and more people work as freelancers, end users don't care what software they use - they only care about delivered quality and file format.
This move by Adobe strikes me as inevitable. They will alter it over time, but they had to start somewhere.
Fun times.
Larry Bolch
Well-Known Member
The first software I ever installed, required typing pages of cryptic code. If it was not letter perfect, it would not run. Cassette tapes were a big improvement—when they worked. Then there were horribly expensive floppy discs and drives, CDs, DVDs and Internet downloads. I expect each had their naysayers who feared any deviation from their comfort zones.
The cloud is inevitable, new and I would not be surprised if there are a few fumbles. With Google applications, being off-line is very limiting, with the browser being the user interface. I can install Photoshop CC locally on all my machines, with two of them activated at any time. Adobe says it takes less than a minute to deactivate one and activate another. If your machine is toast, you can still deactivate it without losing an instance.
If I sign up for a year at a time, I can be away from the web for 180 days, without needing validation. Off line longer than that, requires contacting customer service. The cloud is used to synchronize machines. If you work on a Mac at home and a PC at the shop, Photoshop will be configured the same on both automatically.
To the best of my knowledge, updates are "pushed", so you don't need to go to the Adobe site and search if there are new ones, but you still have to click to install them. If it were truly "cloud", only the interface would be running locally. All processing would be done at the level of the cloud and storage would be predominantly in the cloud.
It will really be great for project-oriented content creation agencies. If you snag a big product introduction campaign that will require the whole creative suite, with two dozen seats filled for three months, you are not stuck with just getting three months use and then having two dozen $2,600 packages of software gathering dust on the shelf. Subscribe to what you need at the beginning of the project, then unsubscribe. With the cloud, content creation people can be anywhere there is an Internet connection and still fully collaborate. No problem if the next project is small and handled in-house by your creative director and a couple of art directors themselves, using only Photoshop and Dreamweaver. Whichever way, you will be working with the most up-to-date software, with little effort on your part.
The cloud is inevitable, new and I would not be surprised if there are a few fumbles. With Google applications, being off-line is very limiting, with the browser being the user interface. I can install Photoshop CC locally on all my machines, with two of them activated at any time. Adobe says it takes less than a minute to deactivate one and activate another. If your machine is toast, you can still deactivate it without losing an instance.
If I sign up for a year at a time, I can be away from the web for 180 days, without needing validation. Off line longer than that, requires contacting customer service. The cloud is used to synchronize machines. If you work on a Mac at home and a PC at the shop, Photoshop will be configured the same on both automatically.
To the best of my knowledge, updates are "pushed", so you don't need to go to the Adobe site and search if there are new ones, but you still have to click to install them. If it were truly "cloud", only the interface would be running locally. All processing would be done at the level of the cloud and storage would be predominantly in the cloud.
It will really be great for project-oriented content creation agencies. If you snag a big product introduction campaign that will require the whole creative suite, with two dozen seats filled for three months, you are not stuck with just getting three months use and then having two dozen $2,600 packages of software gathering dust on the shelf. Subscribe to what you need at the beginning of the project, then unsubscribe. With the cloud, content creation people can be anywhere there is an Internet connection and still fully collaborate. No problem if the next project is small and handled in-house by your creative director and a couple of art directors themselves, using only Photoshop and Dreamweaver. Whichever way, you will be working with the most up-to-date software, with little effort on your part.
Larry Bolch
Well-Known Member
For most people, the full Photoshop is a bit like buying a Hasselblad, keeping it on full-auto to shoot pictures of the kids at Disney World. Many working photographers find Lightroom to be all they need, or things like Photoshop Elements or Corel Paint Shop Pro. The full Photoshop is an industrial-strength image processing package, and in many cases is really overkill for casual photographers. Not only are these more economical, they are easier to learn as well. There are many tools in Photoshop that are of little interest to photographers, while Elements is a sub-set directly aimed at photography.
Before you fly into a rage—which seems all the style at the moment—ask yourself why you need the full Photoshop. What problems does it solve that Lightroom or Elements do not? Not everyone needs a Hasselflex.
Before you fly into a rage—which seems all the style at the moment—ask yourself why you need the full Photoshop. What problems does it solve that Lightroom or Elements do not? Not everyone needs a Hasselflex.
Chris Dodkin
West Coast Correspondent
I just had a very interesting Email from Adobe - asking me to complete a fairly length online survey on Cloud vs Traditional
They are clearly concerned about the reaction from the users based on the way the questions were worded
Maybe things are not going well in Cloud land?
They are clearly concerned about the reaction from the users based on the way the questions were worded
Maybe things are not going well in Cloud land?
Rob MacKillop
Edinburgh Correspondent
I haven't had that email..yet..but if and when I do I will make them sure that I am not happy!
Darren Bradley
Well-Known Member
I hope you gave'em hell, Chris. Forcing everyone to go to cloud model is nothing but a scheme by Adobe to increase their revenue and cash flow, at the expense of photographers. Imagine of a tool manufacturer decided to tell a carpenter that from now on, they wouldn't be able to own their own tools any more and would instead have to pay a monthly fee for their drill press, saw, etc.
By my own calculations, seems it'll end up costing about twice the price I was paying previously. But the worst of it is that if I stop paying, I will be unable to open any .psd or other adobe-proprietary formatted files. So if I want access to my files I have to pay in perpetuity!
As for the 20GB of storage space, they can keep it. It's completely useless to me. I have about 6TB worth of photo files stored on external drives and back up programs (in the cloud!). And I have free storage from a variety of other sources. 20GB isn't a significant amount.
Larry, you may want to consider using FTP or a simple web-based file transfer site like wetransfer or dropbox next time. It'll be a lot faster than sending them by e-mail, and you don't need Adobe's 20GB for that, either.
Adobe is cocky because they know there aren't any real competitors. Where else are you going to go. I so very much hope that a real competitor is born from this fiasco.
