Cause For Concern?

[Glenn Clabo]

My own thoughts on the forum have been outlined in my contributions to this thread so I don't want to go over old ground again.
However I am still recovering from the shock from reading the following;
"Bullying is a two way thing. He comes here, acts up a bit, gets on everyone's nerves, picks on a few people, quizzes, u-turns etc.
But is it he who is the bully when we make him feel unwelcome? "
I think this is outrageous, particularly the first sentence, and fails to offer even an iota of empathy whatsoever for the genuine concerns expressed by loyal members of the forum.
I will leave it at that.

I agree totally. I hate wasting my time expressing my thoughts and feelings and then be dismissed. It makes me question why I even bothered.
To @Hamish Gill and @Pete Askew I want to thank you for allowing me to be a part of this forum. Especially Pete. I've learned a lot...and become friends...at least in my mind...to some good people. I have said this many times...it's your house so you get to pick out the curtains and color of the paint. I now feel like I'm an intruder so I will respectfully step back outside.

 

[Pat Reehal]

All this talk of nastiness... It was as much everyone's response to Tom as it was him.

Thats it for me.

Thank you Pete, Rob, Tom Dunne, Julian and Ivar amongst many, for all your advice and assistance on the forum. I have 'met' some truly wonderful people but this is a bridge too far for me.

I will engage reverse gear and wish you all the very best for the future.

 

[Hamish Gill]

Your missing the point.

The point is, that whilst attacking people isn't warranted. Nor is responding so negatively.

We know nothing of Tom, yet in a very short time we had him down as a troll since he didn't perfectly fit our comfortable little world ...

In what part of wider society is it accepted to quickly judge and dispose of those who don't instantly fit the mould?

No part, at least not in my world!

In my world we try hard to understand those that are different, those with a different way to them...

It was clear to me from the start that Tom wasn't a troll, so I thought it worth persueing a relationship with him.

Yet on more than one occasion people lost their temper with him, me included ... And let me just emphasis that point, in my last post I was also being critical of my own response!

Do we in civilised society respond with attack? Or should we always try our best to welcome people? I know how I feel about that subject ...

So leave if you like ... But I shouldn't based on my comments. As, in the same way as I think Tom is little worse than misunderstood within this community. I now think you are very much misunderstanding me

 

[Tom Dunne]

To Rob, Julian, Paul, Pete, Ivar, Brian and all others who remain here and who have been good friends on this forum it is now time for me to say farewell.
Best wishes for the future of the forum.

 

[Glenn Clabo]

Your missing the point.

The point is, that whilst attacking people isn't warranted. Nor is responding so negatively.

We know nothing of Tom, yet in a very short time we had him down as a troll since he didn't perfectly fit our comfortable little world ...

In what part of wider society is it accepted to quickly judge and dispose of those who don't instantly fit the mould?

No part, at least not in my world!

In my world we try hard to understand those that are different, those with a different way to them...

It was clear to me from the start that Tom wasn't a troll, so I thought it worth persueing a relationship with him.

Yet on more than one occasion people lost their temper with him, me included ... And let me just emphasis that point, in my last post I was also being critical of my own response!

Do we in civilised society respond with attack? Or should we always try our best to welcome people? I know how I feel about that subject ...

So leave if you like ... But I shouldn't based on my comments. As, in the same way as I think Tom is little worse than misunderstood within this community. I now think you are very much misunderstanding me

Hamish...it is you who is missing the point...and keep missing it. All societies that tolerate bullying are destine to fail. When the owner of a forum feels it's ok to blame me for standing up to a bully...that's enough for me.

 

[Hamish Gill]

I never said we should tolerate bullying!

I'm saying that in a society that suffers with bullies it is better to help and work with the bully to help them realise what they are doing.

Rather than turning our backs on the bully we should look to understand the bully, understand their motives etc.

There is often more to the bully than just a bad person ... Tom is clearly not a bad person (nor a bully actually in my mind, though I accept that he could be seen that way)

What do you think happens to the bullies at school who get kicked out and moved on from school to school? They become worse!

The best schools look to nurture the bully... Because bullies are people too you know, often just people with much worse problems then those they inflict upon.

 

[Rob MacKillop]

Jeez, I go outside to take some pictures, and come back to the slamming of doors and indignation all round.

I understand every point of view. I just have one question: Is Tom Dinning still here? I haven't seen anything from him for five days or so.

To those of my friends who are leaving, I can't imagine this place without you. And I miss Julian too. Hamish doesn't post much anymore. Pete is on a break. Who is left?

 

[Rob MacKillop]

Ah, I see he has contributed today.

 

[Hamish Gill]

Have a look at my other thread Rob, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on better engaging people ...
I was looking forward to coming up with some plans this evening, though at the moment I'm probably feeling more down about this place than I expected I could

 

[Rob MacKillop]

I'm feeling down too. Very down. But I'm about to counter feelings of negativity the only way I know how - by uploading a million images!

 

[Hamish Gill]

do it! I'm doing the same... just looking at a recent roll for that hidden gem! (im not sure its there, but that could also be my mood)

 

[Rob MacKillop]

Well, there we go, a few shots uploaded. It has been difficult getting feedback of late, and now maybe harder. I don't know if Hamish is right, and, to be honest, I feel like leaving too. But this place helped in getting me started, and has also helped sustain my interest. I feel I owe it something. I feel I owe Hamish and Pete something. So I'll stick around.

 

[Pete Askew]

Now I wish I hadn't gone out for the day. How can a community fall apart so quickly? My only comment will be about Hamish. I have always, and remain, impressed with the way he expresses things. His opinion always makes me stand back and think carefully about my views and actions. It was no joke that I referred to him as the boss. Not because he controls the on / off switch but that he makes me think. I see no judgement in his writing and I can see what he was trying to express. I can only plead with those of you who find they need to move on as a result, to reconsider and to look again at the various opinions expressed. They do not change the core values at all I think.

 

[Hamish Gill]

Cheers Pete

 

[Brian Moore]

My router failed and so I've had no internet for a couple of days. However, I was following this thread before so I had a general idea what was going on.

I must admit that when I read Hamish's responses this morning I was taken aback. I think my feelings were similar to those expressed by @Tom Dunne, @Glenn Clabo and @Pat Reehal. I thought, OK,...that's an opinion which, on its face, I do not share.

But as I thought about it some more I sensed a possible aspect of the opinion that I could identify with (although I don't know whether Hamish intended this exactly) and upon reflection I realized this particular aspect is one of the reasons I held off responding with opinions to this thread.

Here in the USA there is an expression called "piling on." I think it comes out of the American Football parlance. When a player with the ball is tackled to the ground the play is dead, yet sometimes opponents pile onto the tackled player.

I don't for a moment think that anyone here intended to pile on. I think it was just a natural human behavior thing of members feeling the need to vent. But I was uneasy about the venting. I didn't want to post an opinion in the same vein lest it smack of piling on. If this notion formed any part of what Hamish was trying to say, then I understand.

I enjoy this forum and I enjoy the people and I enjoy the photography. I respect that Hamish is fair minded and wishes only the best for this forum and its well-meaning members. Hamish's statement in this thread won't change that for me.

I am just me, though, and I respect that Tom, Glenn and Pat have chosen to do what they feel is best for them. But I sincerely hope they reconsider.

 

[Kev Pugh]

Wow I'm lost here having been popping in and out and am amazed at how quick things change.....I have up until now kept my views to myself, mainly because I felt that as of late I have not been contributing to the forum other than posting odd images and throwing the odd Hugo about...for me the start that was, did create some feeling of intimidation and yes for that reason I backed away further. I am more than happy for critique hence nearly all my posting are 'critique welcomed' but I must admit I would be inclined to delete my post if it returned with abusive language or comments of any sort as I believe there are people who visit the forum for proper adult discussion, irrespective of whether it was liked or not...I don't judge others as I hope I am not judged in respect of my personality and self, at least not until the judge has fought my battles and wears my boots, and as such I won't judge as to the reasons why such language was used in the first instance...I too feel that I have made many 'friends' here and feel that the run for the hills response is one that hopefully will be temporary...this is a good place and I am sure that there are ways of dealing with abusive members without resorting to leaving, mind you that had crossed my mind even though not directly involved in the initial exchange.
Personally I have my reasons for not being 'Active' here but I do browse and if I've not commented it doesn't mean I don't have a view or opinion, it just means I don't have the words or explanation as to why I like or dislike so I pass by as one would do in a gallery I guess giving the murmured Mmmmmmm!
Hoping that calm returns to a choppy waters and thanks to @Hamish Gill and @Pete Askew for their work

 

[Rob MacKillop]

Well said, Brian.

 

[Hamish Gill]

I just live my existence trying my best not to respond negatively to people, even if they approach me negatively. Negativity breeds negativity... Approaching negativity as positively as you can and quite often the positive wins out.
Sometimes it doesn't, but at least you have fought the battle with a head held high ...
That's all I was trying to encourage, both more in myself, and those around me.
If that was misconstrued, or taken badly through the accusatory nature of my post then so be it ...

I shall come back to the forum and my post on encouraging people to engage after I have had a few days away to collect my thoughts

 

[Ivar Dahl-Larsen]

Thanks, Martin. I know that Brian and I lapse into Scots vernacular at times, if only to counter the seemingly inexorable move towards American English become the only International language of communication. Plus, I think it adds a little local colour, and there's nothing wrong with that. So I will, as you say, not stop doing that. That said, I do know that Ivar for one finds it hard to follow at times. Sorry, Ivar!

I don't think this forum is dead on its knees, but there is only a core of a dozen or so contributors, so I would like to see new voices speaking up where possible. If someone thinks the level of photography is high, I can only say that when I first came here my photographic skills were at Level Zero, but I was encouraged to upload my efforts, and I think the folk here have helped me improve over the years. So don't hold back!

follow what Rob, hard you say. Not at all laddie, just the profanity.

 

[Ivar Dahl-Larsen]

I know I have made commotion answering as I did to T D from down under. I make no appologies for doing so as F words should not be a part of this forum the way I see it. Answering as TD did to Julian and as I perceived it, is far from what I can handle without expressing my views on it. So I did. That however does not mean that I indicated that anyone should be expelled from this forum and neither have I the authorative to do so. I thought I had said my final words on the matter, but as I see friends leaving this forum, I must express my sadness to this as that is a step I did not foresee. I do understand what Hamish is getting at, but unfortunately Hamish chosen words on the matter would not have been mine as people obviously misunderstand and interprete his words as if he tolerates and accepts such words and the answer to Julian. I also personally think that it should not have come that far. I think my friends, that this is a sad case of bad communication and not at all what Hamish meant. Therefore, as we all want I gather, let's continue, learn from this and do all our best to prevent these cases to not occur again. In Trinidad and Tobago, squash is a fruit that's named bygon pronounced bygone. I do not like that fruit, so let's not be squashed by this and let bygones be bygones people! Let's leave what's happened and look forward. We can all contribute to a healthy and constructive forum only by tolerance. I am not saying we should not raise our voices when we feel things are going bad though. We have a saying up here in this country, there is no shame in turning around or make a change of mind! As a friend in Scotland indicated, I may have a hard time following as I am not English, could be true at times, but since he is not English either, he may have the same problem, right laddie? Come on folks, let's move on.