Paul Lange
Moderator
That's it Brian but I fear it will only lead to political discussion over who is the banana skin and who is the banana. All at the tax payers expense no doubt!
Independence for Scotland?
- Thread starter Rob MacKillop
- Start date
Brian Moore
Moderator
And not to mention, Paul, that everyone and his brother wants to be Top Banana!
Pete Askew
Admin
I am pro-European and would not wish the UK to 'leave' the EU. I would also prefer that the Union stayed intact, maybe with further devolved powers. As for the historical associations, I suspect these were driven more by religious affiliations that any sense of Europeanism.
Given what I've read, I'm really not sure how anyone could make a fully rational decision next Thursday. I've started to stockpile shortbread just in case though!
Given what I've read, I'm really not sure how anyone could make a fully rational decision next Thursday. I've started to stockpile shortbread just in case though!
Rob MacKillop
Edinburgh Correspondent
Interesting times...
Brian Moore
Moderator
I never thought about stocking up on shortbread, but I do have a few bottles of the golden nectar stashed away!
Pete Askew
Admin
You do realise that if you paid for it in Sterling that you'll have to give it back!
Brian Moore
Moderator
I used dollars, Pete. U.S.A. ones. Which is what I think an independent Scotland should adopt as their currency.
Pete Askew
Admin
Well, they have sheriffs so...
Brian Moore
Moderator
Right,...and since we already named a town after our new currency we might as well adopt it now.
Ivar Dahl-Larsen
Well-Known Member
Let us hope they don't go bananas in Scotland. You know what you have, but not what you get, if nothing at all.
Brian Moore
Moderator
Let's hope they peel the banana and eat the fruit.
Rob MacKillop
Edinburgh Correspondent
This article sums up the position of many in Scotland, written by an Englishman living here. Worth a read.
http://kimayres.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/the-night-before-night-before.html
http://kimayres.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/the-night-before-night-before.html
Pete Askew
Admin
Thanks Rob. Very well put. Personally I would prefer to see the Union stay as is but I certainly sympathise with the comments made. I would rather see further devolved power than separation but would not be able to make a judgement based on the 'facts' I've seen and such an argument as presented here is quite potent. I just hope that, should Scotland become independent, that there are the parties and politicians in place to allow change towards a more socially fair society to occur.
Rob MacKillop
Edinburgh Correspondent
I'm not an idealist. Realism tells me that England, in fact the UK, is heading towards a kind of federalism, with each area fighting for its own "rights" and powers. And in this fight, Scotland will not be to the forefront of Westminster minds. And England is already shifting to the Right, completely the opposite direction most Scots would wish to go.
The Union has served us all well in different degrees and in different ways, but it has been and is far from perfect.
The result will depress almost half the Scottish population, which ever way it votes. I fear the consequences of voting No.
I don't have any faith at all that English MPs will allow the bribe given last week by Gordon Brown to pass through the Commons. I think there will be a terrible backlash against the Scots. And the consequences of that might not be so respectfully played out as differences have been these last few years. The consequences of a Yes vote will probably see Cameron lose his job, and all manner of chaos break out throughout the remainder of the UK, or rUK as it is being signalled.
But these are the growing pains of a new politics for these islands. I just hope the media do not whip up a frenzy of hate, jealousy and spite, though they are likely to try. Scotland is trying to create a more socially just society, and I'm all for that, though I do fear it will come at a cost. What that cost will be is hard to determine, but I do feel we must try.
The Union has served us all well in different degrees and in different ways, but it has been and is far from perfect.
The result will depress almost half the Scottish population, which ever way it votes. I fear the consequences of voting No.
I don't have any faith at all that English MPs will allow the bribe given last week by Gordon Brown to pass through the Commons. I think there will be a terrible backlash against the Scots. And the consequences of that might not be so respectfully played out as differences have been these last few years. The consequences of a Yes vote will probably see Cameron lose his job, and all manner of chaos break out throughout the remainder of the UK, or rUK as it is being signalled.
But these are the growing pains of a new politics for these islands. I just hope the media do not whip up a frenzy of hate, jealousy and spite, though they are likely to try. Scotland is trying to create a more socially just society, and I'm all for that, though I do fear it will come at a cost. What that cost will be is hard to determine, but I do feel we must try.
Brian Moore
Moderator
Sums it up for me, too, Rob. However, if the vote turns out to be no tomorrow, I don't see how its possible now for Westminster not to allow further devolution. (If the promises being made by Westminster now aren't followed through there will be a lot of very angry people.)
Rob MacKillop
Edinburgh Correspondent
Exactly. But there are a number of backbenchers already talking about making the Scots suffer, and not only on the Right - some Labour MPs too. Even Ed Balls, who is the Shadow Chancellor. He's pissed off that Gordon made this announcement without consulting him. If Labour come to power, Ed will be in charge of the budget, and he's very unhappy that a good chunk of it will disappear without his say. He has said in a radio interview he would block it.
Rob MacKillop
Edinburgh Correspondent
It's all over. The polling stations are closed, and the counting begins...
Julian de'Courcy
Well-Known Member
All the best Rob what ever is chosen I hope it works out well.
Rob MacKillop
Edinburgh Correspondent
Scotland has already won. Great day of democracy in action. We either get Independence or increased powers. Win Win
Brian Moore
Moderator
It strikes me that the genie is out of the bottle no matter which way the vote goes.
If yes wins, away we go. Our wish is our command. (For better or worse.)
But if the vote is no, there is no amount of further devolution that will satisfy everyone, and even a perception of Westminster hedging on concessions proposed in last minute attempts to preserve the Union can only result in greater discontent. It seems to me that (to paraphrase Shakespeare), now is the Spring of our discontent.
Looking at it from this perspective I believe the break up of the Union is from this point forward an inevitability.
If yes wins, away we go. Our wish is our command. (For better or worse.)
But if the vote is no, there is no amount of further devolution that will satisfy everyone, and even a perception of Westminster hedging on concessions proposed in last minute attempts to preserve the Union can only result in greater discontent. It seems to me that (to paraphrase Shakespeare), now is the Spring of our discontent.
Looking at it from this perspective I believe the break up of the Union is from this point forward an inevitability.
