Is it just a badge?

[Hamish Gill]

Leica have announced a new superzoom compact - the dlux30 ... It looks like a panasonic in a slightly different case ... And reports else where seem to confirm this ... This wouldn't be the first time from what I can work out that this had happened .. But has anyone got any real experience of comparing the panasonic and Leica versions?
If it is just a badge then how can Leica justify basically doubling the price? And who is buying them? ... I have a lot of time for Leica cameras (who doesn't?) but this area of thier business baffles me!

 

[john clarke]

Hi Hamish, not actually had any experience with either camera, but if what has been said is true, then of course it will be a total rip-off and reallly rather sad in a way.

John

 

[Pete Askew]

No experience of the badged Leica's either but I recall that the last time this happened the only really difference appeared to be firmware. The lenses in these cameras are Leica designs but I doubt they build them. I guess it's a combination of marketing and smaller volumes of the modded versions. It would be interesting find out what the real differences are.

 

[Hamish Gill]

Hi Hamish, not actually had any experience with either camera, but if what has been said is true, then of course it will be a total rip-off and reallly rather sad in a way.

John

Indeed ... i feel that it, if anything, taints leicas name ...
Other may feel differently

if you go to leica web site all the demo shots are pp'd too ... that seems like a strange thing to do too...

 

[Pete Askew]

I can understand it from Leica's point of view as they can present a range of cameras from P&S through RF to MF in, for them, a cost effective manner. I guess they need to keep the prices of the badged models up so as to not create too big a gulf with the own build models even though what the customer is getting is mostly just brand and image (there's and interesting take on in here - http://www.fastcompany.com/blog/ken-musgrave/thinkdesign/enduring-power-brand-leica-vs-panasonic). Even the own build models seem over priced and some would say they are but, when you use these cameras you soon realise where the money goes. I once read an interesting article on the S2 which, by all accounts, is a stunning camera but very expensive even by MF standards. It discussed whether by keeping the price lower Leica could attract more customers to the S2 and compete with at least Hasselblad and maybe even PhaseOne. But the article also considered that Leica's output is limited by the capacity of their manufacturing process and the quality control process. Basically they make the right number for the company and use price as a limit. Effectively they gain a bigger margin at small volumes and use parts of that to fund the R&D to keep their real cameras as good as they can be. A very different approach to the large volume model used by Canon, Nikon and even Panasonic.

 

[Hamish Gill]

its an interesting article ... but is pointed out in the 18 comments below it might not be entirely truthful ... but this is where i always get confused ... there are so many pro leica and against leica comments out there its very hard to get a sensible idea of the truth ...
the hardware is very likely the same ... one chap mentions different lens coatings ... i doubt this
another chap mentions firmware ... well if you shoot in raw that is a fairly redundant argument anyway ...
i suspect that really only a few chaps at leica really know ... the rest is left unclear ... the lack of clarity, combined with the assumption of quality of the brand is no doubt what sells the cameras ...

 

[Pete Askew]

I think in the case of the Panasonic Leica's it is really only branding and market position. Yes, there may be differences in firmware but I doubt there are different components (the cost model wouldn't work). Even with raw files there is some pre-processing of the image (certain error corrections, lens compensation, defective pixel removal etc) so there is some room for differences. But not enough to justify the price difference I wouldn't have thought. Mind, I suppose in some ways it is no different to a Liverpool football fan buying a Liverpool branded shirt when a much cheaper Scunthorpe United one performs the same function - they just look different!!

 

[Hamish Gill]

and no doubt make there wearer feel different depending on their own perception ...

this is about the most accurate part of that article

That said---and even though I know better---I will admit that the power of that brand has an effect on me. I feel a connection to the Leica legacy when I handle that camera and a desire to take the time to take better pictures. I happen to have access to both. When I use the Panasonic, I am taking snapshots, but when I use the Leica, I am making images.

 

[Pete Askew]

Yes, I suppose it is a bit like the old conundrum about pens and writing. Does buying an expensive fountain pen make you a better writer? Probably not, but it might make you try harder!!

 

[Chris Dodkin]

Oldest trick in the book - nice logo/box and double the price! LOL

Pity, as I'd be looking at Leica as being better designed, better made, etc etc - which would not appear to be the case here

Still, only the profit that makes it expensive, as my granddad used to say...

 

[Paul Lange]

I was told by someone who worked in a camera shop that the Panasonic LX5 and the Leica version were pretty much the same. People just bought the Leica out of snobbery and have always done so.

 

[Pete Askew]

Oldest trick in the book - nice logo/box and double the price! LOL

Pity, as I'd be looking at Leica as being better designed, better made, etc etc - which would not appear to be the case here

Still, only the profit that makes it expensive, as my granddad used to say...

The boxes are certainly very nice!! Well, at least the one the M9 comes in is. It alone weighs more than some cameras (and is probably better built)!!

 

[Hamish Gill]

The Epson r-d1 box is a beauty too ...
Nice boxes are a nice thing, adds to the feeling of owning something a little special ... What bugs me are the Leica collectors who don't take cameras out of boxes ... I've heard tales of Leica sold at auction needing the boxes X-rayed for proof of contents ... That, frankly, makes me sick ... I don't care what it's worth ... Bloody use it!

 

[Pete Askew]

That's how I got my f1. Never been out of its box!! The guy had decided to start selling his Leica collection to concentrate more on his wristwatch collection!!