Critique Required The Windbreak - with spots!

[Stevenson Gawen]

This was the last but one shot on the roll of HP5+ I developed 2 days ago... I like the photo, but...


I've got a bit of a chronic issue with water spots - at least I think that's what they are.
Thinking of getting a squeegee, but have read they can cause scratching. My current method is final rinse with filtered water, run the film through two fingers, and hang up to dry. That works fairly well, but I got a few water marks still, so on this one I tried flicking or shaking the film to get as much water off as possible - and this is the result! That is one of the worst frames.

Details - dev in ID-11 for 8min at about 19-20 C, Ilfostop, Ilford Rapid fixer. Shot in a Pentax MZ-5 with Sigma 70-300.
Just so you know, that was probably about the 10th roll I've developed - still a newbie to film! I used Cinestill DF96 monobath to start with, recently graduated to ID-11.
Any thoughts much appreciated!

 

[Brian Moore]

I bought a squeegee when I first started processing my own film but I didn't like using it because I couldn't "feel" the film when I was squeegeeing. So I stopped using it in favor of the two-finger squeegee approach. I also do a final rinse with a little dish soap (just a drop or two) or wetting agent to help the water roll off the film. Sometimes I've had water spots but they don't tend to appear like the spots on the image you posted. I wonder if there is something else going on? For example maybe they are bubbles adhering to the film during processing? I've had similar (though not as many) which I attributed to my failure to tap the development canister on the counter during agitation.

 

[Stevenson Gawen]

On reflection I think you may have hit the nail on the head with the suggestion of bubbles - when I used DF96 I never tapped the canister, and never had any little spots like this. But in reading the directions for ID-11 I saw a note to tap it when agitating... but forgot with this roll, until a few minutes in...
I agree actually that they don't look like the water spots I've had before, but I couldn't think of anything else!
What do you think of this mark... more or less just left of center. May need to zoom in a little. (in case you're wondering. the vignetting is cos I used my Pentax DAL18-55mm at about 24mm - it's meant for an aps-c sensor. Fun though.)

 

[Pete Askew]

I agree that the multiple spots do not look like drying marks. I have been using ID11 and wiping with fingers (on small format film) for decades. I never get drying marks, but I aways do a final rinse with deionised water. I don't usually use a rinse-aid as that cannot leave a residue as long as the film is washed well in running water beforehand.

You mean the 'square edged' mark? That does look a bit like a drying mark.

 

[Stevenson Gawen]

I agree that the multiple spots do not look like drying marks. I have been using ID11 and wiping with fingers (on small format film) for decades. I never get drying marks, but I aways do a final rinse with deionised water. I don't usually use a rinse-aid as that cannot leave a residue as long as the film is washed well in running water beforehand.

You mean the 'square edged' mark? That does look a bit like a drying mark.

Thanks... I think I was definitely a bit hasty in calling them 'water spots'...

In the second photo I mean this:

Looks weird to me

 

[Pete Askew]

You've either caught an alien entity hiding out in the corn, or it is a drying mark. I didn't zoom in enough to the see the lower area, but could make out the 'square-edged' bit at the top. How long to you wash for?

 

[Brian Moore]

What a strange mark. I've never had anything with a million tiny tentacles like that.

 

[Pete Askew]

Come on, who are you trying to kid 'Mr Brian Moore' of Alpha Centauri!

You do get drying marks like this, but usually if there are residual organic components as well as minerals in the water. I was wondering if the wash time might have been a bit too short and some fixer, etc was still left.

 

[Stevenson Gawen]

You've either caught an alien entity hiding out in the corn, or it is a drying mark. I didn't zoom in enough to the see the lower area, but could make out the 'square-edged' bit at the top. How long to you wash for?

I think it's an alien that got trapped in my camera and is now in my film...
Washing - not sure exactly - I left it under the tap while I tidied up... reckon around 10 minutes.

 

[Stevenson Gawen]

Come on, who are you trying to kid 'Mr Brian Moore' of Alpha Centauri!

OOooo, I didn't know this was an interplanetary forum... how jolly!

 

[Pete Askew]

10 minutes should have been fine. Buy a bottle of DI or distilled water from a DIY store and use it to give the film a final rise (a wash bottle is useful for that) before drying. It is a useful final step.

eg "JEMCHEM Distilled Water Ultra Pure Steam Distilled 100% Purified Premium Water 5"L and a "plastic laboratory wash bottle" from Amazon.

 

[Stevenson Gawen]

10 minutes should have been fine. Buy a bottle of DI or distilled water from a DIY store and use it to give the film a final rise (a wash bottle is useful for that) before drying. It is a useful final step.

eg "JEMCHEM Distilled Water Ultra Pure Steam Distilled 100% Purified Premium Water 5"L and a "plastic laboratory wash bottle" from Amazon.

Sounds good... I've thought before I should get some but never got round to it Haven't come across the wash bottle -will investigate. Thanks!

 

[Chris Bennett]

I think Pete has it - the little tentacles indicate that it's something that's gradually reduced from its original size due to drying but there's a still moist residue left behind that takes a little longer to dry causing a drag effect.

Re. squeegeeing/wiping: after badly scratching a film with my fingers because I noticed a particle of grit on the film too late, I invented the Centrifugal Film-o-Tron .

I understand that some people use equipment that utilises a similar principle in order to dry lettuce leaves.

 

[Stevenson Gawen]

I think Pete has it - the little tentacles indicate that it's something that's gradually reduced from its original size due to drying but there's a still moist residue left behind that takes a little longer to dry causing a drag effect.

Re. squeegeeing/wiping: after badly scratching a film with my fingers because I noticed a particle of grit on the film too late, I invented the Centrifugal Film-o-Tron .

I understand that some people use equipment that utilises a similar principle in order to dry lettuce leaves.

Wow... never thought of that! Is it patented? Might be time to go shopping....

 

[Chris Bennett]

I would highly recommend it.

 

[Pete Askew]

Great Name - are you a fan of Wallace and Gromit by any chance?

 

[Stevenson Gawen]

Great Name - are you a fan of Wallace and Gromit by any chance?

Who, Me?

 

[Ralph Turner]

An interesting thread, folks (including the aliens -‘more cheese, Grommit?’). As mentioned earlier by Brian, bubbles seems the most likely. I haven’t experienced this myself, but read about it whilst researching contamination during development. I have (now hopefully ‘had’) an issue with clear spots on my negs. These were sharper looking, irregularly shaped specks. Our household water is supplied from a spring, up on the adjacent fell. All had been ok, nice clean negs, until I recently changed the particulate filter on the incoming supply. I can only think that the pores on the old filter, being rather clogged but still functioning, were effectively filtering finer particles. Just a thought at this stage. I tried additional filtering the other day, crudely with some tissues in a sieve, and this helped, but I need to be a little more thorough with it in future.
As to the alien beastie, one thought that came to mind was some sort of localised reticulation? Not quite sure what could have caused it, though, so seems unlikely.. I’m no expert in these matters

 

[Stevenson Gawen]

An interesting thread, folks (including the aliens -‘more cheese, Grommit?’). As mentioned earlier by Brian, bubbles seems the most likely. I haven’t experienced this myself, but read about it whilst researching contamination during development. I have (now hopefully ‘had’) an issue with clear spots on my negs. These were sharper looking, irregularly shaped specks. Our household water is supplied from a spring, up on the adjacent fell. All had been ok, nice clean negs, until I recently changed the particulate filter on the incoming supply. I can only think that the pores on the old filter, being rather clogged but still functioning, were effectively filtering finer particles. Just a thought at this stage. I tried additional filtering the other day, crudely with some tissues in a sieve, and this helped, but I need to be a little more thorough with it in future.
As to the alien beastie, one thought that came to mind was some sort of localised reticulation? Not quite sure what could have caused it, though, so seems unlikely.. I’m no expert in these matters

Interesting Ralph... my water comes from the river where those reeds grow in the photo above! For drinking, we boil then filter it using a unit with a charcoal filter. That's what I used for the final rinse. Very good water, to drink, anyway!

 

[Ralph Turner]

Interesting Ralph... my water comes from the river where those reeds grow in the photo above! For drinking, we boil then filter it using a unit with a charcoal filter. That's what I used for the final rinse. Very good water, to drink, anyway!

Indeed, the water here is also very nice for drinking. We also filter ours through one of those UV units, fitted by the previous owners shortly before we bought the house, although they managed ok for the 20 years the lived here. Anyway, sorry, I’ve digressed somewhat. I wish you well in resolving the issues and will be interested to see any follow up on it