Hamish Gill
Tech Support (and Marketing)
I think you might be on to something there ... What with the micro biology...
World record price for a photograph...
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Chris Dodkin
West Coast Correspondent
Pete's attention to detail is amazing - maybe he views the web on a 60" high resolution monitor or something... 
Hamish Gill
Tech Support (and Marketing)
As Paul says though, that's what it is supposed to be about... Removing the imperfections ...
The thing is, as we discovered when looking at the those paintings created for the olympics, these hidden messages, get them or not, are often a little simplistic!
To me this seem like something conceived by a student ... And not nessasarily an artist producing the most valuable photo of all time!
For me a photo can tell much more of a story than this without having to be so contrived!
But I don't think all photos have to tell a story, what's wrong with it just being a photo of composition? That would be what I would chose to get out of it!
I've taken loads of photos that are just of shapes or perspective or composition ... As has everyone here! All the photos of windows, derelict buildings etc ... In fact when you think about it, landscape photography is just a photo of shapes and colours, as is architectural photography ... In fact it's all just shapes and colours really!
It is always down to the viewer to extrapolate what ever meaning they want...
Nobody expects a beautiful landscape to tell a story do they? It's just colours and shapes that happen to be aestheticly pleaseing!
If I take a photo of a door and want to say "this photo of a door is about the eternal search for answers" that's my prerogative, but I shouldn't expect, or even wish others to think the same!
Some might say "it's a picture of a door", someone might say "it reminds me of home, we had a door handle like that" some might say "that's crap" ...
Just because I say it has meaning shouldn't give it monetary value... Especially when that meaning is so simplistic!
We are all individuals and as individuals we have the right to make our own desitions on what story an image tells ... It is after all, all entirely subjective!
Perhaps that's why simplicity of concept has given this photo this high value? So many individuals came up with the same emotional response to it independently of each other ... Then when people compared notes and all had the same message they all went "wow, it must be good of it portrayed the same meaning to all of us" ...
But, this all said, you can't blame the artist ... Who wouldn't take a photo, do a bit of photoshop, blow it up massive, come up with some ******** and sell it for a couple of million if they could ... I would!
I blame the snobbery that surrounds art ... And capitalism!
The thing is, as we discovered when looking at the those paintings created for the olympics, these hidden messages, get them or not, are often a little simplistic!
To me this seem like something conceived by a student ... And not nessasarily an artist producing the most valuable photo of all time!
For me a photo can tell much more of a story than this without having to be so contrived!
But I don't think all photos have to tell a story, what's wrong with it just being a photo of composition? That would be what I would chose to get out of it!
I've taken loads of photos that are just of shapes or perspective or composition ... As has everyone here! All the photos of windows, derelict buildings etc ... In fact when you think about it, landscape photography is just a photo of shapes and colours, as is architectural photography ... In fact it's all just shapes and colours really!
It is always down to the viewer to extrapolate what ever meaning they want...
Nobody expects a beautiful landscape to tell a story do they? It's just colours and shapes that happen to be aestheticly pleaseing!
If I take a photo of a door and want to say "this photo of a door is about the eternal search for answers" that's my prerogative, but I shouldn't expect, or even wish others to think the same!
Some might say "it's a picture of a door", someone might say "it reminds me of home, we had a door handle like that" some might say "that's crap" ...
Just because I say it has meaning shouldn't give it monetary value... Especially when that meaning is so simplistic!
We are all individuals and as individuals we have the right to make our own desitions on what story an image tells ... It is after all, all entirely subjective!
Perhaps that's why simplicity of concept has given this photo this high value? So many individuals came up with the same emotional response to it independently of each other ... Then when people compared notes and all had the same message they all went "wow, it must be good of it portrayed the same meaning to all of us" ...
But, this all said, you can't blame the artist ... Who wouldn't take a photo, do a bit of photoshop, blow it up massive, come up with some ******** and sell it for a couple of million if they could ... I would!
I blame the snobbery that surrounds art ... And capitalism!
Fidel Marcus
Well-Known Member
I have a confession to make;
I am extremely impressed by Andreas Gursky, the man lives in his own world he practically has no perspective on any trends in photography or what is hot or not.
I found no choice in respecting his vision because of one specific concept;
whenever someone asks me what inspires me to shoot a photo I say that often times I see something with my eyes which then inspires a similar or completely different vision in my mind so I set out to create a photo where I don't try to capture what my eyes see but rather what I envisioned in my mind, therefore I am not using the camera to record a replica of what I visually perceive as reality instead an extension of what is in my imagination. And that is practically how he creates his art work.
I still think the piece mentioned in this thread isn't all that impressive or worth the amount it fetched at that auction but much of his work is aw inspiring, this one had me gazing at it for quite some time:
now it doesn't look all that impressive here so take a look at a larger one at the link bellow:
http://brentml01.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/gursky-kamiokande-md.jpg
I am extremely impressed by Andreas Gursky, the man lives in his own world he practically has no perspective on any trends in photography or what is hot or not.
I found no choice in respecting his vision because of one specific concept;
whenever someone asks me what inspires me to shoot a photo I say that often times I see something with my eyes which then inspires a similar or completely different vision in my mind so I set out to create a photo where I don't try to capture what my eyes see but rather what I envisioned in my mind, therefore I am not using the camera to record a replica of what I visually perceive as reality instead an extension of what is in my imagination. And that is practically how he creates his art work.
I still think the piece mentioned in this thread isn't all that impressive or worth the amount it fetched at that auction but much of his work is aw inspiring, this one had me gazing at it for quite some time:
now it doesn't look all that impressive here so take a look at a larger one at the link bellow:
http://brentml01.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/gursky-kamiokande-md.jpg
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Paul Lange
Moderator
I have been debating whether to post further on this, I really have. I don't want to come across as forcing anyone to like it, there is no rule that says you have to. What I will say is that if you look at this image as a photograph, as a photographer you won't get it. It will be like trying to understand Arabic using French, it ain't going to happen. This type of art is about an idea, photography is the conduit that the artist used to convey it. Behind this image is a truely vast amount of history and context thay you have to understand at least a little of. Using the argument that it puts the concept before the image on the surface seems correct but really it is not a valid one. It is just a simple case that you either like it don't get it, don't like don't get it, get it and like it or get it and don't like it.
Hamish Gill
Tech Support (and Marketing)
I'm certainly not questioning his work!
More the art world ...
Just so that's clear ...
As I said in my original post, I actually like the photo ...
I just don't think it's worth what it's sold for based on a simplistic concept!
More the art world ...
Just so that's clear ...
As I said in my original post, I actually like the photo ...
I just don't think it's worth what it's sold for based on a simplistic concept!
Pete Askew
Admin
I think it interesting that it has generated so much debate on the forum which in itself suggest that the merit of the image is beyond its pictorial content. Admittedly, much of this debate has been triggered by the price that the artwork achieved at auction but that is probably more a comment on the current financial situation than about art - investors are looking at alternatives to stocks etc and the art market is seeing a bit of a boom. As an abstract image I quite like it. I admit that I do not see 'the message' in it but then I do not have the right experience to do so. I guess my biggest problem with the image is that, unlike some of the abstract work of Gerhard Richter, for example, I do not feel engaged enough by the image to want to understand it more. So you me, I quite like it as a pattern but not enough that I could be bothered to understand it. Whereas others, I'm sure, can and do whether for the right or wrong reasons (if there have to be any).
Paul Lange
Moderator
That I agree totally with. I wonder if in a way it is really damaging, I think more people might be more accepting of that type of art if it didn't have such elitist attachments.
I hope people don't see any of my comments as direct remarks to them, they're more general but sometimes with the way that forums work it easy to relate one post a bit too directly to your own.
I hope people don't see any of my comments as direct remarks to them, they're more general but sometimes with the way that forums work it easy to relate one post a bit too directly to your own.
Hamish Gill
Tech Support (and Marketing)
Yes Paul, IF I as the viewer choose to see that!
What if I want to read somthing else into it?
What if I decided that it's about "the passing of time" ... I'm not sayin I do (that probably doesn't make any sense) ... But if I said that, and that's what it inspired in me, who is to say that I am wrong?
Actual written stories, novels etc with descriptions and words can be interpretted differently, so why shouldnt this?
Interpretation is subjective...
To me there is much more value in somthing that can be interpretted differently, than somthing that the meaning is told to me!
What bothers me is the value of this interpretation!
Do you see where I'm coming from?
What if I want to read somthing else into it?
What if I decided that it's about "the passing of time" ... I'm not sayin I do (that probably doesn't make any sense) ... But if I said that, and that's what it inspired in me, who is to say that I am wrong?
Actual written stories, novels etc with descriptions and words can be interpretted differently, so why shouldnt this?
Interpretation is subjective...
To me there is much more value in somthing that can be interpretted differently, than somthing that the meaning is told to me!
What bothers me is the value of this interpretation!
Do you see where I'm coming from?
Hamish Gill
Tech Support (and Marketing)
... We are cross posting here now ... 
Fidel Marcus
Well-Known Member
I think it is safe to say at this point that we are more of a "Peter Lik" community here;
lol
lol
Glen Roberts
Well-Known Member
As a picture I quite like it, I find it quite basic but pleasing to me. If someone is daft enough to pay that much for it it is up to them, I have no problem with that. Would I pay that much if I had that much money to waste... No.
What really gets me going is when they say things like "a dramatic and profound reflection on human existence and our relationship to nature on the cusp of the 21st century" BOLLOCKS!!!! ... It's a bloody picture!!
Sorry, but the more I think about the "Art World" the more angry I get
. Why can't people just look at something and like it for their own reasons? without some one who's swallowed a dictionary spouting a load of crap about what "it represents".
You've probably noticed I don't have an artistic mind, I like plain simple pictures. I'm not one of these that go looking for some profound representation of what I'm looking at, I either like it or I don't and for that I make no apologies.
Please note I'm not having a go at anyone that does understand and get the stuff that people write about art. If that's what they like, then that's great, it's just not me
.
What really gets me going is when they say things like "a dramatic and profound reflection on human existence and our relationship to nature on the cusp of the 21st century" BOLLOCKS!!!! ... It's a bloody picture!!
Sorry, but the more I think about the "Art World" the more angry I get
. Why can't people just look at something and like it for their own reasons? without some one who's swallowed a dictionary spouting a load of crap about what "it represents". You've probably noticed I don't have an artistic mind, I like plain simple pictures. I'm not one of these that go looking for some profound representation of what I'm looking at, I either like it or I don't and for that I make no apologies.
Please note I'm not having a go at anyone that does understand and get the stuff that people write about art. If that's what they like, then that's great, it's just not me
.
Hamish Gill
Tech Support (and Marketing)
Exactly!
I'm not sure we are a Peter lik forum either Fidel ..
The image in question certainly has a place here, much of my stuff from about 6 months ago was all non-descript compo shots etc ...
It's just the "value" of this image that's the issue here ...
But for all my moaning ...
Value is as subjective as the art it's self, if somone is willing to pay that much, however much we may or may not like it, thats what it's worth ...
That the nature of the value of somthing at the end of the day ...
Pete Askew
Admin
Quite! And the value to RPF is the interesting discussion it has raised and the fact that it had probably caused us to think about our own image making and what we like in that of others.
Hamish Gill
Tech Support (and Marketing)
Yep, I'd agree with that 
Hamish Gill
Tech Support (and Marketing)
... That Peter Lik shot is a beauty!
I sometimes find his over saturated look a bit much for me, but that's a lovely shot!!
I sometimes find his over saturated look a bit much for me, but that's a lovely shot!!
john clarke
Well-Known Member
River picture - Load of B*****ks!! IMO of course.
Paul Lange
Moderator
I think Pete has raise a good point here. Just see what you can take from it and if you want make it relevant to you. My problem with the fine art community is that they are elitist and often talk utter rubbish. The only thing that gives their words any gravitas is their own kudos and the fact that no one in the cliche will dare challenge them for fear of being bullied. That sort of behavior drives a rift between fine art and the general public and is extremely de-valuing.
Hamish Gill
Tech Support (and Marketing)
Yeppers ... De-valuing in one sence, yet it is what gives much art monetary value!
I think beyond actual "work" photography, for me at least, like all art is by its nature, free and shareable ...
But then this is coming from somone who has only sold one photo on the merit of its artistic nature ...And I ended up giving that away after not feeling comfortable giving it a value!
I guess if you are a "fine art" Photographer by career you might feel very differently!
I think beyond actual "work" photography, for me at least, like all art is by its nature, free and shareable ...
But then this is coming from somone who has only sold one photo on the merit of its artistic nature ...And I ended up giving that away after not feeling comfortable giving it a value!
I guess if you are a "fine art" Photographer by career you might feel very differently!
