C41, E6, etc???

Rob MacKillop

Rob MacKillop

Edinburgh Correspondent
There is a Kodak shop in Edinburgh, processing 35mm film, 1-hour services, etc, the usual. I dropped them an email asking if they processed 120 film, and to my surprise the answer was "Yes, as long as it's C41". I have some, as yet unused, Portra 400 which is indeed C41, but some my other rolls don't say.

So, I'm wondering what all these letters and numbers refer to, and why some developers only do C41, while others charge extra for it?

And is C41 better or worse in certain characteristics than others?
 
If it is colour print film it will be C41 these days. Ilford XP2 is also C41. Slide film is E6. Your other B&W films require a different developer.

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Most in-store developing machines are C41.

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You should buy Rhona a changing bag, developing tank and some chemistry for her birthday! ;)
 
C41 is the usual way of processing film as it is using chemicals for colour film, its quite hard to do C41 processing at home as the temperatures have to be spot on. Black and white film uses different chemicals which is why you would need to usually either send them away or develop them yourself. Ilford saw that people wanted to shoot black and white but wanted it to be easily processed which might be why it came out with XP2 which uses 'colour' chemicals for a black and white film.

The C41 process develops the different colour layers and then bleaches out the black and white layers, some people have developed C41 colour film in Rodnal (black and white developer) to develop the black and white part of the image and get rid of the colour with interesting cross processed results.
 
Hmm...I'm still allergic to it, whether she is using it or I. We live in a small flat, so it would be difficult to avoid. But she does have access to Stills' labs...

So, XP2, despite being b&w is also colour as far as processing goes. That means Kodak in Edinburgh could also develop them.

What makes one developer better than another? Aren't they all automated? I can see that there might be differences in the quality of scan onto a CD...which I always ask for.

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Thanks, David. All very interesting! Is the quality of XP2 as good as other Ilford films?
 
I personally haven't tried XP2, I have decided to shoot colour and then remove the colour, rather than shooting black and white and then thinking 'I wish this was colour'.
 
I see what you mean ;)

From the Ilford website: "the result is particularly high sharpness, and much lower graininess, compared with conventional films of the same speed. In addition, graininess is reduced by overexposure – the opposite of what is found with conventional films."

Sounds interesting, but I'd still like to know how it compares with other Ilford b&w films in overall quality.
 
The issues with colour film for black and white is the fact that the film backing is an orange colour, whereas black and white film is transparent, this means that black and white film will be better for black and white than colour film converted to black and white. I just noted that the XP2 has a clear film which will give a better image. I guess its a black and white film that has moved with the changing development processes. Its now very hard to find slide film development and things like 8mm cine development is quite hard to find as well.

I think Hamish has used XP2 a bit, hopefully he can make comment on the quality of the film, check out this thread I started to see some comparisons:

http://www.realphotographersforum.com/film-conventional-cameras/10902-examples-different-films.html
 
Interesting write up here: The Online Photographer: How To Shoot Ilford XP2 Super
where the writer suggests pulling, as opposed to pushing, XP2:

• For regular shooting in most normal lighting, use EI (ISO) 200.

• For shooting in extremely bright and/or contrasty lighting, like harsh full sun and shadows, use EI (ISO) 100. This insures adequate shadow detail, and the highlights won't block up.

• For shooting in low and low-contrast lighting—and this includes indoor shooting and "available darkness"—use EI (ISO) 400—or even a little higher, although I personally don't recommend ever going all the way to (gasp) 800.
 
It is different in look to other B&W films Rob. Both Hamish and Chris have posted some wonderful shot using XP2 (often referred to as a chromogenic film, it does produce a colour, but only the one). Personally I prefer the grain characteristics of more 'traditional' films.

Every developer changes some properties of the film with B&W processing. Part of the fun / skill is in knowing which does what. I personally use ID11 as my developer of choice for HP5, FP4 and the Delta emulsions. Most B&W developing is done either by hand (daylight tanks or deep tanks) or small automated machines these days. Some of the bigger firms will use a fully automated machine and there are some multi-use chemistries around. I'm sure Joan will tell you what they use.

BY the way, if you leave the bleach stage out of C41 / E6 you leave the B&W layer in and get an effect similar to what you see in films like 'Saving Private Ryan'. It is called bleach bypass and you will find a simulation of it in Nik ColorFX.

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That's right. XP2 has a nominal ISO and you can use it over a wide range as long as you specify that when it is developed. Being a monochrome dye, you don't get the colour shifts that you do when the under or over-rate a colour film.
 
David - thanks for the link.

I might get some XP2, if only to not have to wait a week before getting results.

One other question...with somewhere like a Kodak shop, would there be a different process when using a 24-hour service over a 1-hour service? Same chemicals, same bath, same time, same end result?

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Thanks, Pete. Just read your post after posting mine.

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So, if I shot XP2 at 100, I would have to tell the developer I had done so. That sounds like I couldn't just get my local Kodak to develop it?
 
I haven't used XP2 for years (decades maybe!). We used to have a C41 / E6 pro developer near IMSL but they gave up years ago. I did it myself for a while but it was a pain (although I do have machines that could do it now if I could be bothered - I rarely shoot colour film any more) and switched to Pinewood Photographic. B&W is very straightforward and I either use a daylight tank, a deep tank (for campaigns) or a Jobo ATL (100 and 1500) machine.
 
Perhaps we can have an XP2 competition after the Trip 35 competition ends :)
 
Rob,

You already have great source of information from friends at RPF. Yet, if you have an inclination for such approach (home processing) for yourself or your daughter, please let me know. We can set-up a Skype time to talk more in depth on any questions you may have.

If it is a in home operation, I do not recommend colour film processing or printing due to their more toxic chemistry.

N

Even in a small flat, if the bathroom has enough ventilation, a JOBO CPE-2 (used and cheaper) could be utilized instead of noisier simple tank film processing in B+W film processing. A rotary system is quieter, temperature controlled and less problematic for exposing the chemistry to interior air. Definitely prefer using liquid chemistry instead of mixing your own.
 
Thanks for the kind offer, Nihat, but it ain't going to happen. Yours looks great, though, and you get fantastic results.

David - you and your competitions! Lets get the Trip one done first. Any closing date? I'm heading back to my home town in a couple weeks, a trip which will be perfect for the Trip...
 
XP2 is my choice of film!
It's bloody fantastic! If I buy XP2 (which I'd prefer) at the rate I'm buying Agfa, I'd be a very skint man! lol.

Great suggestion with the XP2 David, but I think we can all do better than that..... And go for HP5!!
Don't need a dark room, don't need photo developing shop..... Just need a few things at home.
What say all? :)
(This might just pull my finger out and make me get some chemicals after so long of having the stuff to do it (thanks to Hamish))
 
XP2 for lazy, HP5 for fun things and when I can be arsed.

DDX turned out to be my favorite developer for HP5 ... Lovely stuff!

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Of be up for a HP5 competition ...
 
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