What is wrong with these people?!

[Hamish Gill]

I know we have covered this almost ad nauseum, but really what is it with people who seem to spend thier time on the Internet finding stuff to **** and moan about?
I know, before anyone points it out, this is basically exactly what I'm doing my self right now ... ...
And yes, we have a haven from it here, so what's my problem?
Have a look at this very simple article from dp review on frameing of centre
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/5058631297/photo-tip-left-of-center
Look at the comments ...
People attacking the article, then attacking each other!
Pointless!
The article is very siplistic, but it's very obvious that it is aimed at the beginner ...
Then these clowns come along, over complicate everything and argue with each other!
Is this really what human beings are like?
Honestly, i just can't understand the mentality of it all
I was in a perfectly good mood when I got up this morning, then just from doing my rounds of a few photography sites, I feel vaguely irritated ...

 

[Kev Pugh]

Ah but you see Hamish some people believe that their way is the only way, they have to follow rules and are fearful of experimentation or indeed anyone who does. You have clearly identified someone who is trying to help others a little, those that are seeking advice, those that have replied in a vain attempt to discredit the author are at least idiots and at most ignorant. As for the need to spoil everyones day with what is in fact piffal is their way of claiming their 15 mins of limelight. I believe in thumpers rule....if you ain't got anything nice to say, don't saying anything at all.....don't let simpletons spoil your day. Now it's time for me to step down from my soapbox............... have a good day old mate

 

[Pete Askew]

Well said Kev. I had a quick glance at the article (well suited to the purpose I though) and flipped through some of the replies. They didn't irritate me as such but just prompted me to think, "tossers" and I closed the tab. Certainly I wouldn't waste my time responding to them and can't understand why people do. The problems of anonymity I guess!

 

[Chris Dodkin]

DPReview has completely gone to s**t - the norm seems to be people just taking shots at each other for the hell of it.

You'll note that few if any of the critics post any actual photos - it's just another excuse to try and bully people online for them.

I regularly see people arguing the toss about equipment they don't even own!

 

[Hamish Gill]

Ah but you see Hamish some people believe that their way is the only way, they have to follow rules and are fearful of experimentation or indeed anyone who does. You have clearly identified someone who is trying to help others a little, those that are seeking advice, those that have replied in a vain attempt to discredit the author are at least idiots and at most ignorant. As for the need to spoil everyones day with what is in fact piffal is their way of claiming their 15 mins of limelight. I believe in thumpers rule....if you ain't got anything nice to say, don't saying anything at all.....don't let simpletons spoil your day. Now it's time for me to step down from my soapbox............... have a good day old mate

Indeed
and really, it was my original motivation for setting up this place ...
If it starts happening here ill just delete them comments and remove peoples posting rights ... easy when you have the POWER!
I actually feel sorry for them if thats the best they can find to do with their time ... life really is to short to waste it being so bitter!
Its my own fault for reading it, and letting it bother me ... its like a car crash, that tendancy to look on despite you knowing its bad for you ... ... daft really!

...The problems of anonymity I guess!

There is a rather elegant solution to that problem ...

DPReview has completely gone to s**t - the norm seems to be people just taking shots at each other for the hell of it.

You'll note that few if any of the critics post any actual photos - it's just another excuse to try and bully people online for them.

I regularly see people arguing the toss about equipment they don't even own!

What i find odd, is that its becoming a majority attitude!
my only conclusion is that generally people are bored, disolusioned with their lives, or just plain idiots ...

anyway, it doesnt matter really, it doesnt happen here and thats what counts ... we can bask in the glory of our cushioned haven and let the world bicker around us as far as im concerned ...

 

[Vic Shaw]

It's all about having a large e-peen and being a troll really, I belong to a wide varity of forums and I see it all over. I treat people online as I would IRL, but some people have no issues and love the attention this sort of behaviour attracts.

Vic

 

[Larry Bolch]

I sense that a lot of the posters on DPReview are elderly 13-year-old fanbois. They choose a camera brand, read every opinion on the web and fantasize owning it. They are drawn to irrational anger in messages they read, and pass it along thinking it makes them seem serious.

"Just because it is pessimistic, does not mean it is profound."

When I was 13, I became aware of performance cars. I found it humiliating that my father—a western Canadian rancher—drove a Pontiac, not a Ferrari. If we had a Ferrari, I knew I would be acclaimed as president of the student council, teachers would automatically give me top grades on my exams—without requiring me to take them—and that cute little budding 12-year old would say "This bud's for you."

Then I grew up.

Mention a feature on the new Sony in a Nikon or Canon forum and be prepared to be labeled as making a personal attack or as a troll, even if your comment was just a mild "that's interesting". The self-worth of a fanboi is inextricably tied to the respect given the product he worships. Mention that a TV show was shot with a Canon, and listen to the hysterical chattering of the Nikon fanbois reach a deafening level.

At the worst, there is the system jumper. Canon comes out with a lens that is not in the Nikon lineup, and the fanboi delivers a diatribe about how Nikon has let him down, they are completely behind Canon and he is dumping his equipment while he can still get some money out of it. Obviously this will be the end of Nikon and hopefully he can get rid of it all before they go out of business. He did the same with his Pentax a year before. No idea what he expects by venting in a Nikon forum, but he does provoke the wrath of the fanbois and a flame-war ensues.

Ask for a suggestion for a practical walkin'-'round, shootin'-stuff lens for your new Nikon D3100 and one of these kids will say that for start, you need the holy trinity—f/2.8 14-24, 24-70 and 70-200. To fill out your kit, you need the 200-400mm, a 105mm macro and a couple of tilt-shift lenses as a bare minimum, unless you also do sports and wild-life. Then you also need four super-telephotos. In his fantasy!!! Point out that the 18-105mm kit lens does a very nice job and the kid goes ballistic. He may not even have a camera other than a cheap P&S.

Months before it was shipping, the X100 had been declared a piece of garbage, soft lens, bad focusing, impossible quirky operating system and so on. The actual camera was the exact opposite, but these myths live on. The camera is unique and requires learning, but the results are superb—and once learned—is very easy to use in the field. None the less, there were bloody flame-wars during the months leading up to the time the camera shipped between people who had zero access to the camera. Much of it was based upon minutely analyzing a few shots on the Fuji site, shot with early pre-production product and drawing very broad conclusions.

Currently there are threads: "When are they going to announce the D800—I have sold all my equipment and I have shoots coming up?" As if Nikon has an obligation to not only disclose their road-map to you, but to include all the details of future cameras. I expect that Canon would greatly appreciate this as well.

Perhaps people raised with the expectation of entitlements and instant gratification—and anger when they are not met. "I am without a camera and it is all Nikon's fault. They were supposed to announce it on August 21st. Everybody said so." Everybody other than Nikon, that is.

Ah, well...

 

[Kev Pugh]

Great Rant Larry Love it but you forgot to mention the.......................ah sod it who cares seems WE are al on the right forum

 

[Paul Lange]

I think really what the internet does in some cases is condense all the idiots into a single highly vocal point(less) in space and time. They have the illusion of gravitas to those who view them but world consists of literally millions of DSLR owners, they are the minority.

 

[Dan Cattermole]

Hahaha!!! Just had a read through the episode of patheticness that Hamish is addressing there, and I've got to say, it was a choice of RPF and dpreview (only because I like the simplicity in using one forum, one email address, one eBay account........etc) and I tell you what folks, I am extremely glad that this place is not even anywhere near what I've just witnessed on there!
Thank you all for maintaining the high level of supporting constructively that makes this place sustain it's reputational maturity from my opinion. I do simpathise for the postee who HAS got a useful tip to share with others (in fact, I found it useful and it helped me dearly) and then brain was finding it difficult to believe what my eyes were telling me in response by others!!!
W****** like that are most certainly not welcome here!!!!

 

[Hamish Gill]

Yep... I think your probably right Paul
Despite not passing any 'A' levels (I was a bit of a lost cause when I was that age) I did attend... I did business and economics, and one of the things that stuck with me was the fact, and it was touted as fact, that people are 5 times more likely to complain about service than they are to recommend service.
I wonder if that holds true as a rule if you read a cross section of threads on dpreview ... For every 1 positive comment there would be 5 negative ones ... Not because 84% of everyone thinks negatively, but just because only a small portion of those who have something positive to say are inspired to say something. The rest, me and Pete and maybe others who thought the article was pretty good for what it was, just politely nod and move on...
It's a shame that that is how humans are really, as it sort of breeds more negativity... More people will, read that sort of thing and think it's the right way to be ...
As Chris says, dpreview is getting more and more like it ... Meaning more and more moaners will post, and the nice people will loose thier voice!
Ah well, they just need to find thier way here i suppose

I think the overwhelming thin that bothers me is not so much the moaning, but the way that it is conducted ...
We all have a right to moan, but it's that sort of air of superiority, (as has been noted) a 'my way or f off' attitude ...
But then thinking about it, that's what I'm doing here, im (we are) taking a higher ground, looking down on these folk moaning about them with a sence of supiriority, then I comment that if they came here I would remove thier posting rights, ie a 'my way or f off' attitude ...
I annoy my self sometimes

 

[Ben Jennings]

I think the overwhelming thin that bothers me is not so much the moaning, but the way that it is conducted ...
We all have a right to moan, but it's that sort of air of superiority, (as has been noted) a 'my way or f off' attitude ...
But then thinking about it, that's what I'm doing here, im (we are) taking a higher ground, looking down on these folk moaning about them with a sence of supiriority, then I comment that if they came here I would remove thier posting rights, ie a 'my way or f off' attitude ...
I annoy my self sometimes

Brilliant. Really made me laugh.

 

[Hamish Gill]

well at least my moaning is making people smile and not irritating the crap out of people ...

 

[Pete Askew]

Says who!!

 

[Hamish Gill]

Im hoping to expand on this thread somwhat and get some idea of what people feel about the merits of argument and heated discussion ... Id like to know where people think the line should be drawn so i can set some more firm guidlines n place

in case you miss it, i have just sent out this email

Hello all


I've been moaning about people moaning on other forums ... yes, i'm aware of the irony!


I am really interested to hear what members think about this...


Is the higher ground that we take in avoiding bickering with each other a major factor in what made you join the forum in the first place?
Or do we just come across as smug and self righteous.
is there any merit in argument?
and where do you join the line?


anyway, the discussion is here
http://www.realphotographersforum.com/threads/2229-What-is-wrong-with-these-people-!


Cheers


Hamish

...to all users
I'd really like to know your thoughts?

 

[David Bennett]

What is wrong with these people? There is nothing wrong with these people

What is wrong with these people? There is nothing wrong with these people - as long as they are not in positions of power. They just want their 15 minutes of fame to stretch out to a bit longer.

Let it go, is my advice.

 

[Hamish Gill]

Cheers for popping in and commenting David
and welcome to the forum!

It really just lead me to think a bit harder about where i draw the lines my self...
I dont want to become some sort of megalomaniac, banning people willy nilly if i feel they have crossed a line that i have drawn ...
we are a community, i want the community to help me define the line!

 

[Jim Kuo]

I agree totally. I glance over those posts once a while for the soap opera like entertainment. There is no point to stress over them.

If you do see nonsense, just laugh it off and go back to doing photography in the real world, away from the photography forum

What is wrong with these people? There is nothing wrong with these people - as long as they are not in positions of power. They just want their 15 minutes of fame to stretch out to a bit longer.

Let it go, is my advice.

 

[Pete Askew]

Well for me it was not a major factor. I belong to no other photography forums, but having taken a quick look at RPF, decided that it might be an interesting place to share my passion. I am certainly very pleased that what we've seen at DPReview etc does not happen at RPF and I think the tone of the site and lack on anonymity prevents it. Also, while we might discuss equipment, this is not a major feature of the site and the discussions do not get into the minutiae seen elsewhere. Probably because the focus is much more on images here. And, if it wasn't I'd probably get bored and move on. I am passionate about photography and images. Not the kit. I happen to use certain bits of kit that I've ended up with because of various decisions / accidents etc. I know they are not perfect but they let me do what I want to do (which is why I bought them). Others have chosen other routes and while of superficial interest, it is what they do with it that is more important. Some of my favourite shots on this site were shot with equipment very different to mine (iPhones, modified film P&S etc) and to me that makes no difference.

Do we come across as arrogant, smug, righteous? No, I don't think so. I just don't think we are interested in the arguments that seem to rage elsewhere. If it wasn't for people pointing them out, I wouldn't even be aware of them. Personally I would just ignore them and continue as we are. If ever one starts here, Hamish can, as he said, simply delete it and ban the users. And, again, if RPF is discussed elsewhere and criticised as being somehow elitist or arrogant I personally do not care. The members here enjoy the place and that is what is most important.

So for me, the mix in RPF is good, the tone is perfect and I think we should continue as we are, growing slowly and 'organically' and not pay too much attention to what happens in other forums that use different models.

 

[Ben Jennings]

I think one of the main reasons I signed up to the site that there is no bickering and everyone gives constructive criticism. I wouldn't want to post my photo's on here is everyone was just going to rip the s**t out of them, that's not gonna help me get better, it'll make me give up. I much prefer someone to suggest different ways of achieving a goal rather than getting told everything that is wrong with what I am doing.
Don't get me wrong there is a place for telling people of the mistakes they have made but it's fruitless doing that unless you can give examples of how to improve a photo.

I don't think it is bad to take the moral high ground when it comes to how people respond to each other. Someone has to. At the end of the day when people take a photo it's quite a personal thing and offence can easily be caused when discussing it. It's better to take the high ground and try and help each other and create an environment where everyone is comfortable to show their work and can appreciate the work of others regardless of skill level.

For me, I'm still quite early in my photography journey and it can be intimidating to show what you have done, especially when there are some many others that are so much further on at perfecting the art of photography. But this forum gives a format where everyone is equal, and has been really encouraging to me. And the help that people have given me has really encouraged me to experiment more, to improve.

Rant over.