What is wrong with these people?!

[Andy Boardman]

I would say that on hear it is great that there is no moaning or cheapshots at others & the gear they use, I like the site because that is missing, everyone seems give advise rather than say" its because of your gear" then go on to tell you what they use & how good it is.I think I have seen Hamish say before the picture is the important part not what took it !

 

[Hamish Gill]

It is really good to hear that people get this place and feel it provides them with something that i set to create!

...but, just to reiterate

[QUOTE

It [this thread, and peoples responses] really just lead me to think a bit harder about where i draw the lines my self...
I dont want to become some sort of megalomaniac, banning people willy nilly if i feel they have crossed a line that i have drawn ...
we are a community, i want the community to help me define the line![/QUOTE]

So, is there a sensible way to define this line?

 

[Pete Askew]

No I don't think so but it's one of those terrible, indefinable limits that you only know has been crossed, when it's been crossed. I think rules and guidelines for such matters do more harm than good though. So I would recommend , business as usual and if ever it looks like a line is getting stretched, act then.

 

[Hamish Gill]

I tend to agree, but i am concerned that under scrutiny we may need to refer people to some sort of set of rules ... or at least guidelines

Mark Grant, very kindly provided the last set of rules

Rules of discussion:This is an Online Forum and we would expect you follow common sense and standard online forum and blog etiquette with regards to your fellow participants.
1. Be nice, this is the golden rule.
2. No swearing or bad language, lets keep the forum friendly and safe for anyone to read at work or at home.
3. Try to stay on topic, nothing worse than when a thread drifts miles off topic.
4. Posting pictures and links to interesting content is encouraged, but no spam please.
5. Please post real opinions based on actual experience, not hearsay or myths from the internet.

Basically I'd like to amend this to be a little bit more fitting to the general "vibe" we have attained over the last year... hopefully with some help from other members?

 

[Mike Milton]

Well, there seems to be a few underlying sources of commentary:

- I've just bought it, so it is great and the things I chose not to buy must be crap; otherwise I'd be stupid
- I've never actually held it but I've read stuff and, if I don't follow along with those posts, I'll look stupid
- I use it myself, but my shots are (soft, OOF, whatever), so it must be crap; otherwise I'm not competent
- I've decided I don't need (1.2 vs 2.8 vs 4 or whatever criteria is being discussed) so nobody can make use of it and is stupid for wasting money.

I'm sure there are more (not least those who tumble down the rabbit hole after minutae that make no real world difference)

m

 

[Chris Dodkin]

Hamish - given what we see on DRP - and what we have on RPF - it's really a perfect storm.

When ever a thread spirals down on DPR, a quick 'there's a better place - on RPF' post in the thread will attract lots of like-minded people, who have had enough of the cr@p

Now, if we do this 1000 times a day, we'll get banned - but perhaps when ever a thread gets your blood pressure up - just post a thread with a link to RPF.

 

[Dave Kendrick]

Hi Hamish,
Apologies if it's all been said before but, IMO, the main problem with on-line fora is that, by definition, it encourages 'keyboard warriors' - people who probably wouldn't raise their voice in a public debate because they don't have the confidence of their convictions but they do feel the anonimity of the internet gives them the opportunity to give all and sundry the benefit of their opinion without any fear of public (face to face) embarrassment. Hence this often leads to arguments amongst very opinionated people who each only know very little, often about very narrow aspects, of the subject.
For me, debate is good and is to be encouraged, particularly when the debaters really know their subject, whereas argument is bad and is to be discouraged. IME you don't often get people who really know their subject arguing, they debate.
Just my tuppence worth .
Dave.

 

[Hamish Gill]

IME you don't often get people who really know their subject arguing, they debate.

I think this possibly answers my question

debate is encouraged, arguments are forbidden

 

[Laurence Cremetti]

DPR. Sad and greedy, opinionated and selfish, aggressive and ignorant. Otherwise, pretty good!!

 

[Martin Taylor]

You see this everywhere, Hamish. Have you ever read the comments to BBC News items on their website, or even worse the comments to articles on Planet F1?

When I lecture our students on internet etiquette I take care to embed within their brains not to write anything that they wouldn't say to someone's face. If everyone obeyed that rule the internet would be a much nicer place to surf. As it is, many people seem to hide behind the anonymity of their computers.

 

[Gordon Lindsay]

Ah well it just proves that "You should never argue with an idiot" - in case bystanders find it too difficult to tell the diference.

 

[Hamish Gill]

That's somthing else I'll get in the new rules Martin, good point ...

'Talk to people like you would if you met them face to face'

 

[Jason Porthouse]

It's an interesting point, Hamish. Certain fora I belong to have degenerated to the point where those running it have thrown in the towel and pulled the site, only to have it reappear later on with miscreants suitably chastised and some of the more 'lawless' sub-forums removed. I think arguement and discussion is fine, as long as a respectful attitude is always maintained. Unfortunately a lot of the subtle nuance is lost in the written word, especially in the haste of the internet, and unless people are particularly careful to ensure the tone of the conversation is conveyed (one of the reasons why emoticons were invented) then miscommunication can easily arise. I certainly think the RPF philosophy of real names is a wise one. Personally I always join fora under my real name, as I've always thought it too easy to hide (or be tempted to hide) behind pseudonyms.

Jason

 

[Laurence Cremetti]

I agree

Yes, we should speak as though present, but therein lies a slight problem to me.
I told a DPR resident some time ago to "learn his subject before teaching," and he called me an internet warrior.
The thing is, had I actually met him, I would have still said the same! Is this a bad thing?

 

[Paul Lange]

A problem is that some people or groups of people seem to get a degree of kudos not because they talk any sense but just post loads and have forthright views and tell newbies what they need to do rather than what options they should weigh up etc. Their ego's grow and soon you have a self confessed idol and a bunch of worshipers or a clique who have just lost sight of reality. The progression is that you then have groups of self confessed idols and their worshipers and clique and they go to war! I got caught up in a bit of an "exchange" in a hifi forum once and quickly learned from that mistake. I have stayed well away from forum agro ever since that time.

 

[Hamish Gill]

...I think arguement and discussion is fine, as long as a respectful attitude is always maintained.

for sure!

Unfortunately a lot of the subtle nuance is lost in the written word, especially in the haste of the internet, and unless people are particularly careful to ensure the tone of the conversation is conveyed (one of the reasons why emoticons were invented) then miscommunication can easily arise.

Maybe that is a word of advice i could give as part of the rules

Take time to covey your point, and where confusion may arise, use emoticons

I certainly think the RPF philosophy of real names is a wise one. Personally I always join fora under my real name, as I've always thought it too easy to hide (or be tempted to hide) behind pseudonyms.

Jason

same here!

 

[Hamish Gill]

Yes, we should speak as though present, but therein lies a slight problem to me.
I told a DPR resident some time ago to "learn his subject before teaching," and he called me an internet warrior.
The thing is, had I actually met him, I would have still said the same! Is this a bad thing?

not necessarily, but i think we are getting to the nitty gritty here... Within a forum i think that sort of comment is likely to cause upset... It might be accurate, but unfortunately its just that sort of thing that gets people backs up. especially within a forum where there is an atmosphere of negativity
Mayb it would be ok here as we have a nicer atmos, but if you said that here id probably suggest the your were more thoughtful in your approach, as much as anything else, to avoid the possible backlash!

could we have a link? id like to see the context, context is everything really ...

In the sort of situation where someone is touting nonsense, i might pick up on it, but my approach is always to try and inform them why they are wrong in a friendly manner, friendliness is more likely to result in a conversation ... and who knows, it may turn out that they were right all along and its actually you who need to learn your subject ...
if it is them thats wrong, or they take it badly, then tht really is their issue... but id rather members went down the friendly road before making a outwardly negative/derogatory comment

As much as possible i always try to assume that i am wrong, before right ... it makes learning new things a lot easier
I expect others to take the same approach!

"fallor ergo sum"

 

[Laurence Cremetti]

You know, the more I think about this thread, the more I regret posting in it.

I think the best thing, (for me), is to stay away from any "issues" and just accept it as "life."
I confess to being a tad hot headed at times!

 

[Hamish Gill]

Don't worry Laurence, I'm glad you posted ... I wanted people to be honest in how they react on the internet to other people ...
I'm not expecting to have a forum full of hippies, we can all get hot headed at times ...
I'd just rather people's hot headedness was more considered and less rushed into when posting here
As long as we all stick to that idea we will all get on fine I'm sure!

 

[Hamish Gill]

This made me chuckle ... Read the comments

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1109/11091325franiecgripforMini.asp

Evidentally it is news, by it's very nature ...